Accelerator prevents PCMCIA from working.

Hercules · 08 November 2017, 12:08

I purchased a Compact flash card reader to plug into my A1200's PCMCIA slot.

My problem is it appears my accelerator card maps its memory into the PCMCIA as when my accelerator card is disconnected my PCMCIA card reader works, but if I plug the accelerator card back in again, I cannot use the PCMCIA slot again.

Is their a software patch that can move the accelerator card RAM out of the PCMCIA area to enable me to use the PCMCIA or am I stuffed and need to go and buy an accelerator card that is PCMCIA friendly?

Daedalus · 08 November 2017, 12:33

Nope. The accelerator RAM clashes with the PCMCIA port because it does not have the capability to map it elsewhere. Typically such boards have a jumper where you can disable the second 4MB of RAM, thus enabling the PCMCIA port. Other accelerator cards have fully 32-bit address buses and so can map their RAM to anywhere, but the simpler 24-bit designs are limited to the 8MB Zorro-II space. Kickstart 3.1 sees this clash and disables the PCMCIA port to prevent problems; Kickstart 3.0 does not, so if you wanted to go back to 3.0 you could get around it this way.

Sim085 · 08 November 2017, 14:13

Is PCMCIA always disabled with Kickstart 3.1? Does it make a difference if the accelerator card is just to add extra ram or with onbord processor?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daedalus

Nope. The accelerator RAM clashes with the PCMCIA port because it does not have the capability to map it elsewhere. Typically such boards have a jumper where you can disable the second 4MB of RAM, thus enabling the PCMCIA port. Other accelerator cards have fully 32-bit address buses and so can map their RAM to anywhere, but the simpler 24-bit designs are limited to the 8MB Zorro-II space. Kickstart 3.1 sees this clash and disables the PCMCIA port to prevent problems; Kickstart 3.0 does not, so if you wanted to go back to 3.0 you could get around it this way.

Daedalus · 08 November 2017, 14:26

It's only disabled if it finds RAM that clashes with the PCMCIA port. If the accelerator maps the RAM away from the area (as most of them do), or if it only has 4MB in the lower portion of the Zorro-II address space, then the PCMCIA port is enabled as before. 3.0 doesn't have that check in place, so both can be used at the same time, but in that case, using an SRAM card (the primary purpose of the PCMCIA port) would likely result in crashes and data corruption.

Amiga1992 · 08 November 2017, 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hercules

Is their a software patch that can move the accelerator card RAM out of the PCMCIA area to enable me to use the PCMCIA or am I stuffed and need to go and buy an accelerator card that is PCMCIA friendly?

Which accelerator is it?
Fúria allows you to do this with a patch, but others don't.

I'm guessing it is an old one? All the modern ones have this problem solved somehow.

Daedalus · 08 November 2017, 17:47

Older ones often solved the problem too. It's nothing fancy, it just means the card needs to include a slightly more sophisticated RAM controller and a 32-bit address bus. Cheaper cards and ones using CPUs with 24-bit address buses lack the extra address lines, like the A1200 motherboard itself. So it's a cost/simplicity/laziness thing depending on perspective

alexh · 08 November 2017, 18:15

If I understand it there were newer versions of PCMCIA software for the Amiga which use just the I/O space rather than the address space and so no clash.

Only SRAM cards should clash.

Dunno if this was CFD (the compact flash driver) or the Wifi Ethernet card drivers.

This was just my thoughts rather than truth. Might be worth researching

Hercules · 08 November 2017, 19:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akira

Which accelerator is it?

I'm guessing it is an old one? All the modern ones have this problem solved somehow.

Its an M1207. Manufactured by UK company Marpet Developments in 1995. My one comes with an FPU....

http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/marpet1208

alexh · 08 November 2017, 19:39

That's not an accelerator card. It's just a memory card.

You can't move the RAM out of (some of?) the PCMCIA space because you only have the built in 68LC020 with only a 24-bit address interface.

I had thought that the PCMCIA drivers could be written to use just the PCMCIA I/O space but if you can't get it to work with the latest version of CFD then its not possible. Perhaps even the I/O space is overwritten.

You could in theory wire a 2-pole switch to the RAM jumpers so you can select between 4MiB and 8MiB when you don't want to use the PCMCIA

fgh · 08 November 2017, 21:18

The pcmcia is disabled by the kickstart before there is any conflict, so cfd drivers cannot fix this. (don't remember which module but there are other threads describing it)
Using KS3.0 should work, or changing the memory jumpers to 4mb.

Daedalus · 08 November 2017, 22:14

Yeah, you can set that board to 4MB and it should work fine. True, the I/O space for the PCMCIA port is outside the RAM area, so any software using I/O should keep clear of the fast RAM area (and I'm pretty sure that was always the case). The reason that KS 3.1 puts a blanket block on PCMCIA stuff is that using an SRAM card was its main function - there weren't CF card adaptors, SCSI adaptors, samplers or anything like that at the time. Even the MC from PCMCIA stands for "Memory Card"

Card.resource will just refuse to open, regardless of whether you want to use the memory or I/O space.

Jope · 09 November 2017, 08:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akira

Fúria allows you to do this with a patch, but others don't.

What's Furia specific about that patch? It was a patched card.resource that gets loaded into RAM with loadmodule.

patrik · 11 November 2017, 17:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jope

What's Furia specific about that patch? It was a patched card.resource that gets loaded into RAM with loadmodule.

So it would work on all A1200 fastmem-expansions and accelerators with 8MB memory in the Zorro2 address space?

Jope · 11 November 2017, 18:02

Unless there is something Furia specific I am unaware of.

patrik · 11 November 2017, 18:20

May I ask where one can get hold of this patch?

Retro-Nerd · 11 November 2017, 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by fgh

The pcmcia is disabled by the kickstart before there is any conflict, so cfd drivers cannot fix this. (don't remember which module but there are other threads describing it)
Using KS3.0 should work, or changing the memory jumpers to 4mb.

Exactly. With KS 3.0 my M-TEC 1230+8 MB fastram doesn't disable the PCMCIA port. Worth a try for turbo cards, not for pure ram expansions though.

Retro1234 · 11 November 2017, 18:32

What module or library is it from 3.1 that stops it working and can you load the old 3.0 module only on 3.1 to make it work?

:Ok reading an old thread its probably card.resource 37.11 &/or carddisk.device 37.11 but AFIK loadmodule wont let you load older modules.

mark_k · 11 November 2017, 19:47

What was the last/final version of card.resource? Was an updated one included with the OS 3.5/3.9 Boing Bag updates?

Either way, it would be relatively simple to extract card.resource from Kickstart 3.1 into a file. Then you could just run that before mounting/using non-RAM PCMCIA devices.

Retro1234 · 11 November 2017, 19:52

Its the old 3.0 version you want not the new one.

mark_k · 11 November 2017, 19:54

No need for that, just patch out the code in the later version which checks for RAM at $600000.

08 November 2017, 12:08	#1
Hercules Vodka monster. Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: UK Posts: 332	Accelerator prevents PCMCIA from working. I purchased a Compact flash card reader to plug into my A1200's PCMCIA slot. My problem is it appears my accelerator card maps its memory into the PCMCIA as when my accelerator card is disconnected my PCMCIA card reader works, but if I plug the accelerator card back in again, I cannot use the PCMCIA slot again. Is their a software patch that can move the accelerator card RAM out of the PCMCIA area to enable me to use the PCMCIA or am I stuffed and need to go and buy an accelerator card that is PCMCIA friendly?

08 November 2017, 19:39	#9
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,337	That's not an accelerator card. It's just a memory card. You can't move the RAM out of (some of?) the PCMCIA space because you only have the built in 68LC020 with only a 24-bit address interface. I had thought that the PCMCIA drivers could be written to use just the PCMCIA I/O space but if you can't get it to work with the latest version of CFD then its not possible. Perhaps even the I/O space is overwritten. You could in theory wire a 2-pole switch to the RAM jumpers so you can select between 4MiB and 8MiB when you don't want to use the PCMCIA Last edited by alexh; 08 November 2017 at 19:45.

11 November 2017, 18:32	#17
Retro1234 Phone Homer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: 5150 Posts: 5,773	What module or library is it from 3.1 that stops it working and can you load the old 3.0 module only on 3.1 to make it work? :Ok reading an old thread its probably card.resource 37.11 &/or carddisk.device 37.11 but AFIK loadmodule wont let you load older modules. Last edited by Retro1234; 11 November 2017 at 18:51.

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08 November 2017, 12:33	#2
Daedalus Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Dublin, then Glasgow Posts: 6,334	Nope. The accelerator RAM clashes with the PCMCIA port because it does not have the capability to map it elsewhere. Typically such boards have a jumper where you can disable the second 4MB of RAM, thus enabling the PCMCIA port. Other accelerator cards have fully 32-bit address buses and so can map their RAM to anywhere, but the simpler 24-bit designs are limited to the 8MB Zorro-II space. Kickstart 3.1 sees this clash and disables the PCMCIA port to prevent problems; Kickstart 3.0 does not, so if you wanted to go back to 3.0 you could get around it this way.

08 November 2017, 14:26	#4
Daedalus Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Dublin, then Glasgow Posts: 6,334	It's only disabled if it finds RAM that clashes with the PCMCIA port. If the accelerator maps the RAM away from the area (as most of them do), or if it only has 4MB in the lower portion of the Zorro-II address space, then the PCMCIA port is enabled as before. 3.0 doesn't have that check in place, so both can be used at the same time, but in that case, using an SRAM card (the primary purpose of the PCMCIA port) would likely result in crashes and data corruption.

08 November 2017, 17:47	#6
Daedalus Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Dublin, then Glasgow Posts: 6,334	Older ones often solved the problem too. It's nothing fancy, it just means the card needs to include a slightly more sophisticated RAM controller and a 32-bit address bus. Cheaper cards and ones using CPUs with 24-bit address buses lack the extra address lines, like the A1200 motherboard itself. So it's a cost/simplicity/laziness thing depending on perspective

08 November 2017, 18:15	#7
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,337	If I understand it there were newer versions of PCMCIA software for the Amiga which use just the I/O space rather than the address space and so no clash. Only SRAM cards should clash. Dunno if this was CFD (the compact flash driver) or the Wifi Ethernet card drivers. This was just my thoughts rather than truth. Might be worth researching

08 November 2017, 21:18	#10
fgh Registered User Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Norway Posts: 817	The pcmcia is disabled by the kickstart before there is any conflict, so cfd drivers cannot fix this. (don't remember which module but there are other threads describing it) Using KS3.0 should work, or changing the memory jumpers to 4mb.

08 November 2017, 22:14	#11
Daedalus Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Dublin, then Glasgow Posts: 6,334	Yeah, you can set that board to 4MB and it should work fine. True, the I/O space for the PCMCIA port is outside the RAM area, so any software using I/O should keep clear of the fast RAM area (and I'm pretty sure that was always the case). The reason that KS 3.1 puts a blanket block on PCMCIA stuff is that using an SRAM card was its main function - there weren't CF card adaptors, SCSI adaptors, samplers or anything like that at the time. Even the MC from PCMCIA stands for "Memory Card" Card.resource will just refuse to open, regardless of whether you want to use the memory or I/O space.

11 November 2017, 18:02	#14
Jope - Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Helsinki / Finland Age: 43 Posts: 9,861	Unless there is something Furia specific I am unaware of.

11 November 2017, 18:20	#15
patrik Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Umeå Age: 43 Posts: 922	May I ask where one can get hold of this patch?

11 November 2017, 19:47	#18
mark_k Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Posts: 3,335	What was the last/final version of card.resource? Was an updated one included with the OS 3.5/3.9 Boing Bag updates? Either way, it would be relatively simple to extract card.resource from Kickstart 3.1 into a file. Then you could just run that before mounting/using non-RAM PCMCIA devices.

11 November 2017, 19:52	#19
Retro1234 Phone Homer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: 5150 Posts: 5,773	Its the old 3.0 version you want not the new one.

11 November 2017, 19:54	#20
mark_k Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Posts: 3,335	No need for that, just patch out the code in the later version which checks for RAM at $600000.

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