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Old 31 October 2019, 10:27   #1
005AGIMA
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1992 386DX Beating Amiga?

Original post seems to have caused confusion.

Simple version:

Using 1992/93 parts ONLY.....
Question 1:
What parts and what prices would be needed to create an A500 (not +) comparable to a 386DX 4MB 60MB HDD with SB16?

Question 2:
What A1200 package and upgrade, and at what prices, would be required to buy and build an A1200 comparable to a 386 DX 4MB 60MB HDD with SB16?

For context, the ORIGINAL post is below
-----------------------------------------------------------------

For the hell of it...

The Scenario is...the year is 1992, and based on my real life.

You have a 1989 A500 with 1MB Ram (not an A500+)

What I actually did back then was:

1) Sell the Amiga and all the games for ~£250 (from memory) and buy a used 386DX with 4MB Ram, 60MB HDD, and Monitor for ~£350, and a little later, add an SB16 for ~£85? (what I actually did but memory is fuzzy on the actual amounts).
This is a change over budget of £235

Now...with the same change over budget or less as above (£235).....would it be possible to:

2) Keep the A500 but upgrade it using stuff only available in 1992, into a machine at least "on par" with the 386DX, or better?

or....

3) Sell the A500 but keep the games (so let's call it a sale price of £150?, to give a total budget of £385) and buy and build a 386DX beating A1200?

Which would you do?
What upgrades would you purchase and what did they cost back then?

Even if over budget, could a 386DX beating A500 (not +) or A1200 be done with 1992 products?

Last edited by 005AGIMA; 01 November 2019 at 12:22. Reason: To get back on track lol
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Old 31 October 2019, 10:35   #2
Amigajay
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Why on earth did you sell your A500 in 1992!?

Other than that, i wouldn’t have bought a PC no matter the price!
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Old 31 October 2019, 10:40   #3
Steril707
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 005AGIMA View Post

Even if over budget, could a 386DX beating A500 (not +) or A1200 be done with 1992 products?
These are completely different power leagues.
The A1200 could be competing with the 386 machine on most fields, the 1mb A500 only for fast scrolling action games.
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Old 31 October 2019, 10:50   #4
Unkown
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These are completely different power leagues.

Exactly and i would say not a fair comparison!.
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Old 31 October 2019, 11:27   #5
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Gvp a530?
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Old 31 October 2019, 12:46   #6
swinkamor12
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In 1992 Amiga 500 was still better than 386 DX.
Games where better, productivity software were better.
Windows 3.1 was released in summer of 1992.
3D games like Wolf and UU I was released in 1992, but they were still not good enough.
In 1992 Wolf, UUI, Win 3.1 was like writings on the wall that soon Commodore have to relase better hardware than 386 or banckrupt.
But to the end of 1992 Amiga 500 was still better than 386.
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Old 31 October 2019, 12:56   #7
gimbal
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A hardware comparison just doesn't work. In 1992 I wanted to keep my Miggy because of the software, not because of the hardware.

And I would have gladly had a 386 standing next to it for the software that it had.

But I would never have let my Miggy go even if the hardware was from a different era. You can't replace that unique software set.
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Old 31 October 2019, 13:36   #8
005AGIMA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amigajay View Post
Why on earth did you sell your A500 in 1992!?

Other than that, i wouldn’t have bought a PC no matter the price!
It was "around" 92. At a guess.

And that's when the A1200 came out so the scenario works.

I'm just interested in an alternative timeline.

I may even build such a beast if it's possible.
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Old 31 October 2019, 13:45   #9
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I have a bit of a soft spot for all retro computers and currently setup on my own desk in the man cave is my CD32 and 386SX. The CD32 is only there cause I've been working on it but usually its the 1200 (same difference in terms of games really). Both the IBM compatible and the Amiga get similar amounts of use and the games honestly play just as well as on both systems. The PC stuff maybe looks a bit better but the Amiga stuff sounds better so I'd call it even.

One good test though was my 7 year old son who has his own windows 10 rig in his bedroom (obsessed with minecraft and roblox) and he would spend sometime with Dad looking at the retro machines too. He was able to boot the Amiga and navigate around workbench to load a game but be thought the 386 was broken when it just booted to a DOS prompt. So in that respect the Amiga wins hands down.

Back to the point though the main difference as I see it between the A500 and the 386 would have been the HDD. So you'd have been looking one of those side car things that also would have added the ram. You probably could have got that for your £235 budget but the 386 would still have been faster. I'm not so sure your budget would have stretched to an accelerator too.

Back in 1992 I would not have seen the point in keeping the games but selling the machine so option 3 is out in that respect.
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Old 31 October 2019, 13:51   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swinkamor12 View Post
In 1992 Amiga 500 was still better than 386 DX.
Games where better, productivity software were better.
Wing Commander 2, Ultima 7, Ultima Underworld, Comanche and shitloads of other games that were released for PCs with VGA cards in 1992 say otherwise.

Can't talk about productivity software, though.
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Old 31 October 2019, 14:46   #11
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I believe the PC had the better games by then (1992-93).
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Old 31 October 2019, 14:57   #12
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wing commander 2 was not impresive, ultima 7 is like many other games on Amiga 500, Ultima Underworld I was not good enough. Comanche was one and only in 1992.
You mistake 1992 with 1993.
In 1992 Amiga 500 was still good.
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Old 31 October 2019, 15:01   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 005AGIMA View Post
For the hell of it...

The Scenario is...the year is 1992, and based on my real life.

You have a 1989 A500 with 1MB Ram (not an A500+)

What I actually did back then was:

1) Sell the Amiga and all the games for ~£250 (from memory) and buy a used 386DX with 4MB Ram, 60MB HDD, and Monitor for ~£350, and a little later, add an SB16 for ~£85? (what I actually did but memory is fuzzy on the actual amounts).
This is a change over budget of £235
I do not understand your calculation.

You paid (price for the A500) + £100 + £85 für the new hardware (and lost all software)

So the change over budgets would be £185 if you keep your A500
or up to £435 in total, if you sell the A500.

For £435 you would have certainly got a nice A1200 with fast ram and HD.

Well: the problem in your move is certainly the total neglection of software costs ... people wouldn't have switched platforms that easily back than without piracy...
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Old 31 October 2019, 15:35   #14
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The price for that 386 sounds a bit too good to be true. I bought my first Amiga 500 second-hand at the end of 1992. I read the classifieds for several months, and also considered a 386, but at that price, I remember you would rather get a 386SX with monochrome screen, not a 386DX with colour.

Quote:
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For £435 you would have certainly got a nice A1200 with fast ram and HD.
Er, no. An A1200 cost £399 without HD or fast RAM.
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Old 31 October 2019, 16:17   #15
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Er, no. An A1200 cost £399 without HD or fast RAM.
Ah ok... I thought the £ would have been stronger back than.

Well - than it is really no fair comparison to such a cheap 386

Just looked up some old ads: in November of 1992 the cheapest 386SX would cost still at least $1000 (or £700) but without monitor!
DX would be even more...

So someone was willing to give that PC away for less than half the price?
But still you would need a VGA monitor ...

Last edited by Gorf; 31 October 2019 at 17:45.
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Old 31 October 2019, 18:40   #16
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I believe that pc (vga, monitor etc) would cost about the same with an Amiga 4000.
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Old 31 October 2019, 18:41   #17
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back in the 1992 I had a ibm 386 ps/2 55sx, with 2 mb ram, 60mb hard disk and 16mhz cpu; my brother had an amiga 500 expanded to 1 mb.
for some games, my pc was better, even with a 128kb of internal graphic card, games ran in vga and faster than the amiga one (4d sports driving, f1gp)..of course some amiga's games had better colour, and all had a better sound (than the pc speaker).
even in 94-95 I think the result was a tie, 1 - 1, because my pc had the hard disk (and for games like indy4, monkey island 2, championship manager 93 94 etc.) was a huge advantage, but then some other games with only 2mb didn't work (sensible world of soccer).

so, probably amiga 500 was the right choice until 1995
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Old 31 October 2019, 18:47   #18
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I well remember my 486 TOGETHER with the Amiga in my own room

I used the PC to play Lucas Arts point and click adventures, Alone in The Dark serie and others adventure games
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Old 31 October 2019, 19:56   #19
Shatterhand
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Originally Posted by chip View Post
I well remember my 486 TOGETHER with the Amiga in my own room

I used the PC to play Lucas Arts point and click adventures, Alone in The Dark serie and others adventure games
Well when I got my first PC it was a Pentium 233 MMX. It stayed on the same room together as my A600 and my MSX2+ .

The guys who brought the PC, when they entered the room they were like "Wow you have some ancient stuff here".

They would never guess that, 21 years later, I'd still have them. Well, the MSX2+ at least as unfortunately the A600 stopped working just a little bit after that. The MSX2+ is still here with me and ready to be turned on at any time , while the A600 I now have is not the same as the one I had back at the day

(That A600 had a 1.3 Kickstart and it was converted to PAL-M video color standard. It also booted on 60hz instead of 50hz, but I an app called "Pal Booter" that changed it to 50 hz )
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Old 31 October 2019, 20:39   #20
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386DX not, 386SX @16MHz at some points definitely yes especially on system without L2 cache and without math coprocessor - had opportunity to compare real life performance and usually A500 with vanilla 68000 @7MHz was able to compete successfully with PC equipped with 286 @12MHz to 386SX @16MHz - depends on application...
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