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Old 21 August 2019, 13:36   #1
XsamX1987
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Indivision 1200 AGA MK2cr Games incorrect ratio/Stretched (HELP)

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Hello all

So I will include some pictures so just in case I don't properly describe my problem so before I run a game everything looks fine resolution is set to 720 x 566

The first game is off and not using the whole screen and the 2nd game looks awful aspect ratio/stretched/off-center as soon as I exit a game it goes back to normal

I'm guessing its something simple but I have no idea so any help at all would be great.

Last edited by XsamX1987; 12 October 2019 at 21:07.
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Old 21 August 2019, 14:03   #2
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Games hardly ever use the Amiga's full resolution like you have configured for your workbench. They will always be all over the place, not centered, sometimes only 200 pixels high and so on.

For USA games under WHDLoad, you can configure the game icon's tool types to include NTSC so that they will display as the developers intended, filling more of the screen.

Many European games run squashed like that by design, PAL resolutions but only 200 lines used of the screen.. Some are not NTSC compatible even though they run in a 200 line resolution.

You will naturally need to configure indi aga mk2 + your monitor for NTSC modes as well.

Think about the early European Amiga users with PAL machines (not switchable to NTSC mode) and TV sets where you couldn't adjust the picture size / position. Every USA game was squashed with 56 blank lines in the bottom. This is how the hardware was like.

Last edited by Jope; 21 August 2019 at 14:08.
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Old 22 August 2019, 00:33   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jope View Post
Games hardly ever use the Amiga's full resolution like you have configured for your workbench. They will always be all over the place, not centered, sometimes only 200 pixels high and so on.

For USA games under WHDLoad, you can configure the game icon's tool types to include NTSC so that they will display as the developers intended, filling more of the screen.

Many European games run squashed like that by design, PAL resolutions but only 200 lines used of the screen.. Some are not NTSC compatible even though they run in a 200 line resolution.

You will naturally need to configure indi aga mk2 + your monitor for NTSC modes as well.

Think about the early European Amiga users with PAL machines (not switchable to NTSC mode) and TV sets where you couldn't adjust the picture size / position. Every USA game was squashed with 56 blank lines in the bottom. This is how the hardware was like.
Thank you for getting back to me, Think I understand most of what you're saying

can you tell me exactly what I need to change on the config tool for my indi aga mk2

And where do I go to change this setting on WHD load?

just added 3 more screenshots They are indivision config overscan and screen mode pref

Last edited by XsamX1987; 12 October 2019 at 21:07.
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Old 22 August 2019, 23:55   #4
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Hey there. In my config I try to keep the correct aspect ratio and overscan area. So most games will not fill the screen. This is similar to how it would show if you connected your Amiga to a TV/monitor via RGB. Games like Pinball Dreams will fill most of the screen because it uses the overscan area.

If you want your games to fill the entire screen you would need to use a 640x512 resolution and tweak it. But many games which uses the overscan areas would not show correctly then.

I have attached pictures of my settings. I have a 50Hz profile because my screen can handle 50Hz. I had to make a custom 720x576 resolution by going into VGA modes to get the correct PAL setup. Aspect ratio, how games fill the screen and everything looks almost identical to how it looks if I connect my BenQ BL 702As and BL 912 directly to RGB. I have my picture in games shifted a bit to the right because I had some issues with some games unless I did this. Other than that my profile would look identical to a PAL Amiga connected directly VIA RGB. The way a PAL Amiga originally will show it's picture.

Edit: I run my workbench in PAL-Interlaced and am using the same 720x576 as in regular PAL. As you can see in the pictures the height is halfed in PAL VS PAL Interlaced but still the same base resolution between the two. This way I don't get pauses when it switches from workbench to games and back again. From the pictures you posted XsamX1987 it looks normal to me if you want to show the picture how it will originally show in games if you were connected directly to RGB. You probably got this profile from me last year? It also looks like you are using a widescreen monitor? I use a 5:4 monitor, which is what I made this profile for. So if your monitor stretches the picture the aspect ratio would be a bit wrong.

BTW: If your after fullscreen games and don't mind that many games will be out of bounds because you sacrifice the overscan area then read through this thread http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=64505 Should be some profiles there you can download aswell If my memory serves me correctly. I prefer to stick as close as possible to how the Amiga is supposed to show games

One example of a fullscreen profile for games in this thread http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=...&postcount=122
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Last edited by turrican9; 23 August 2019 at 00:47.
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Old 23 August 2019, 17:09   #5
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Originally Posted by XsamX1987 View Post
can you tell me exactly what I need to change on the config tool for my indi aga mk2
On the left are the amiga modes. Select NTSC there. On the middle are the output modes, select 768x576 @ 60, apply.

Quote:
And where do I go to change this setting on WHD load?
The game's icon tooltypes need to have NTSC added for those games which you wish to run in NTSC mode.

To adjust the tooltypes, you would use the Workbench's Information feature.

Single click the game's launch icon, then select Information from the menus on the top of the screen. A short cut is right amiga-i.
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Old 23 August 2019, 19:09   #6
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Originally Posted by turrican9 View Post
Hey there. In my config I try to keep the correct aspect ratio and overscan area. So most games will not fill the screen. This is similar to how it would show if you connected your Amiga to a TV/monitor via RGB. Games like Pinball Dreams will fill most of the screen because it uses the overscan area.

If you want your games to fill the entire screen you would need to use a 640x512 resolution and tweak it. But many games which uses the overscan areas would not show correctly then.

I have attached pictures of my settings. I have a 50Hz profile because my screen can handle 50Hz. I had to make a custom 720x576 resolution by going into VGA modes to get the correct PAL setup. Aspect ratio, how games fill the screen and everything looks almost identical to how it looks if I connect my BenQ BL 702As and BL 912 directly to RGB. I have my picture in games shifted a bit to the right because I had some issues with some games unless I did this. Other than that my profile would look identical to a PAL Amiga connected directly VIA RGB. The way a PAL Amiga originally will show it's picture.

Edit: I run my workbench in PAL-Interlaced and am using the same 720x576 as in regular PAL. As you can see in the pictures the height is halfed in PAL VS PAL Interlaced but still the same base resolution between the two. This way I don't get pauses when it switches from workbench to games and back again. From the pictures you posted XsamX1987 it looks normal to me if you want to show the picture how it will originally show in games if you were connected directly to RGB. You probably got this profile from me last year? It also looks like you are using a widescreen monitor? I use a 5:4 monitor, which is what I made this profile for. So if your monitor stretches the picture the aspect ratio would be a bit wrong.

BTW: If your after fullscreen games and don't mind that many games will be out of bounds because you sacrifice the overscan area then read through this thread http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=64505 Should be some profiles there you can download aswell If my memory serves me correctly. I prefer to stick as close as possible to how the Amiga is supposed to show games

One example of a fullscreen profile for games in this thread http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=...&postcount=122

Hi thanks for getting back to me and witch such in-depth description and the screenshots u have taken for me

yes I would like to keep the games looking as original as possible

I am still with the profile you sent me, yes I have upgrades, my monitor, I'm now using a Ben Q FP222W A 22inch

here are the specs if it helps the only difference is mine only has VGA

https://www.cnet.com/products/benq-f...cd-monitor-22/

so I connect it to my amiga via a DVI to VGA cable

so yes keep the games looking original I don’t know if u have the time or how easy it would be but can you tell me the best settings to have on my config tool and the best settings for screen mods prefs and overscan?
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Old 23 August 2019, 19:11   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jope View Post
On the left are the amiga modes. Select NTSC there. On the middle are the output modes, select 768x576 @ 60, apply.



The game's icon tooltypes need to have NTSC added for those games which you wish to run in NTSC mode.

To adjust the tooltypes, you would use the Workbench's Information feature.

Single click the game's launch icon, then select Information from the menus on the top of the screen. A short cut is right amiga-i.
I will leave the output modes alone at the moment

But as I am sick off work I will try everything else u mentioned thank you.
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Old 23 August 2019, 20:16   #8
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Each amiga mode has a different output mode attached to it, so adjusting the ntsc mode's output mode should not affect your pal mode's settings.
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Old 23 August 2019, 20:17   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jope View Post
Each amiga mode has a different output mode attached to it, so adjusting the ntsc mode's output mode should not affect your pal mode's settings.
OK brilliant will change that as well then, Get back to u soon to let you know.
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Old 24 August 2019, 19:44   #10
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Originally Posted by XsamX1987 View Post
Hi thanks for getting back to me and witch such in-depth description and the screenshots u have taken for me

yes I would like to keep the games looking as original as possible

I am still with the profile you sent me, yes I have upgrades, my monitor, I'm now using a Ben Q FP222W A 22inch

here are the specs if it helps the only difference is mine only has VGA

https://www.cnet.com/products/benq-f...cd-monitor-22/

so I connect it to my amiga via a DVI to VGA cable

so yes keep the games looking original I don’t know if u have the time or how easy it would be but can you tell me the best settings to have on my config tool and the best settings for screen mods prefs and overscan?
So your workbench seems to fill the screen and games seems to show up correctly appart from a bit stretched because of 16:10 screen. And I assume your screen will not support 50Hz? Honestly, I would just keep it as is if I were you. I have not messed with NTSC profiles myself because I stick to PAL.
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Old 24 August 2019, 20:27   #11
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My 5c is also that it's an impossible job to get all Amiga games to fill the screen.

My recipe is that I configure my monitor + workbench for max overscan and the games/demos will all be visible, but will never fill the visible area.
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Old 25 August 2019, 17:39   #12
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Originally Posted by turrican9 View Post
So your workbench seems to fill the screen and games seems to show up correctly appart from a bit stretched because of 16:10 screen. And I assume your screen will not support 50Hz? Honestly, I would just keep it as is if I were you. I have not messed with NTSC profiles myself because I stick to PAL.
Ok Makes Sense, here is a screenshot from a manual from Benq on the Display modes.

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Old 25 August 2019, 17:40   #13
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My 5c is also that it's an impossible job to get all Amiga games to fill the screen.

My recipe is that I configure my monitor + workbench for max overscan and the games/demos will all be visible, but will never fill the visible area.
So as I'm still learning about my Machine am I Basically expecting too much?
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Old 25 August 2019, 18:00   #14
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Ok Makes Sense, here is a screenshot from a manual from Benq on the Display modes.
Basically no modern LCDs will list 50Hz for vertical sync. My Phillips 17 inch 5:4 LCD/LED modern screen which I use on my A1200/AGA MK2 combo just happened to work with 50Hz at 30KHz +. The AGA MK2 does not support vsync so the scrolling will never be 100% smooth even if you find a working setting around 50Hz. But by finetuning I managed to get it 95% smooth with just a small stutter now and then. This involves alot of finetuning and will vary from screen to screen. So even if your screen happened to support close to 50Hz I could not help you because of all the finetuning that would be required for your particular screen. This is alot of trial and error and spending alot of time. Also, when doing this you should also have another screen ready which is connected to RGB/composite or other means than AGA MK2. This is because you can get a black screen while messing with the settings which will not come back after a restart.
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Old 25 August 2019, 18:39   #15
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Originally Posted by turrican9 View Post
Basically no modern LCDs will list 50Hz for vertical sync. My Phillips 17 inch 5:4 LCD/LED modern screen which I use on my A1200/AGA MK2 combo just happened to work with 50Hz at 30KHz +. The AGA MK2 does not support vsync so the scrolling will never be 100% smooth even if you find a working setting around 50Hz. But by finetuning I managed to get it 95% smooth with just a small stutter now and then. This involves alot of finetuning and will vary from screen to screen. So even if your screen happened to support close to 50Hz I could not help you because of all the finetuning that would be required for your particular screen. This is alot of trial and error and spending alot of time. Also, when doing this you should also have another screen ready which is connected to RGB/composite or other means than AGA MK2. This is because you can get a black screen while messing with the settings which will not come back after a restart.
Thank you for explaining that in detail to me,

I think at the moment I will leave the fine-tuning for the time being at least, and that's good to know about having the 2nd screen ready just in case,

1 last favor could you explain how the indivision config tool Overscan Pref and screen mode prefs work together as much as I can tell they all work together and its a juggling act?
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Old 25 August 2019, 19:50   #16
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So as I'm still learning about my Machine am I Basically expecting too much?
Yep, the Indi AGA is not really flexible enough, you'd have to reflash the settings before every game, and it isn't really designed for that kind of use. Usually these flash chips are rated for reflashes in the thousands, not millions, so it's enough to get it set up to your liking, but not really a wise move to reflash before each game.

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Originally Posted by XsamX1987 View Post
1 last favor could you explain how the indivision config tool Overscan Pref and screen mode prefs work together as much as I can tell they all work together and its a juggling act?
I wouldn't say it's juggling. Load the monitor drivers you're going to use, set overscan prefs to your liking (usually max overscan), then go to indi config and select a large enough vga mode to each screen mode you have monitor drivers loaded for..

As far as I remember, some sane visible defaults are already there for each mode.

So to sum it, why go through all this trouble for something the Amiga never actually did for anyone back in the day?

Last edited by Jope; 25 August 2019 at 19:55.
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Old 25 August 2019, 20:18   #17
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Thank you for explaining that in detail to me,

I think at the moment I will leave the fine-tuning for the time being at least, and that's good to know about having the 2nd screen ready just in case,

1 last favor could you explain how the indivision config tool Overscan Pref and screen mode prefs work together as much as I can tell they all work together and its a juggling act?
Jope already explained it good. Basically you seem to have a full screen workbench so you have them set up nicely together in that regard. Other than that the indivision overscan I set the best I could so all games I tried would show up as correct as possible with the overscan area I managed to make with the config tool. Another key factor for me, as mentioned earlier was to use the same basic resolution (720x576) for workbench hir-res laced as for lo-res games. This to avoid long delays when switching to games and back to workbench. You seem to have kept those settings from the profile I made. I would suggest you stick with them or you might have issues in certain games. If you want to mess with them, make sure you backup the profile and have another screen available as I suggested in my last post.
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Old 25 August 2019, 21:06   #18
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Yep, the Indi AGA is not really flexible enough, you'd have to reflash the settings before every game, and it isn't really designed for that kind of use. Usually these flash chips are rated for reflashes in the thousands, not millions, so it's enough to get it set up to your liking, but not really a wise move to reflash before each game.



I wouldn't say it's juggling. Load the monitor drivers you're going to use, set overscan prefs to your liking (usually max overscan), then go to indi config and select a large enough vga mode to each screen mode you have monitor drivers loaded for..

As far as I remember, some sane visible defaults are already there for each mode.

So to sum it, why go through all this trouble for something the Amiga never actually did for anyone back in the day?
Thank you for explaining, I didn't know the Amiga Coudnt do it, I'm still learning
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Old 25 August 2019, 21:07   #19
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Jope already explained it good. Basically you seem to have a full screen workbench so you have them set up nicely together in that regard. Other than that the indivision overscan I set the best I could so all games I tried would show up as correct as possible with the overscan area I managed to make with the config tool. Another key factor for me, as mentioned earlier was to use the same basic resolution (720x576) for workbench hir-res laced as for lo-res games. This to avoid long delays when switching to games and back to workbench. You seem to have kept those settings from the profile I made. I would suggest you stick with them or you might have issues in certain games. If you want to mess with them, make sure you backup the profile and have another screen available as I suggested in my last post.
Sounds good to me Thank you
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