Why are platform games on the Amiga really mediocre?

[Dastardly]

Ah, the sign of a great platformer! I've probably swore and nearly thrown my joystick playing Rainbow Islands that any other game. Still love it though.

[Retro-Nerd]

There's a difference between sheer frustation and "damn, i try it again". Play Yolanda!

[Dastardly]

Yolanda is just a renamed Hercules from the C64. I used to play that loads. Good game.

[Retro-Nerd]

You are really a platformer freak.

[Dastardly]

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

You are really a platformer freak.

[Mrs Beanbag]

i like that on Super Mario, you get to practice long jumps even from the beginning, in a fun, safe and rewarding way by trying to jump right to the top of the flag pole at the end of each level. Then by the time you really do need to do a big jump you are not completely unprepared.

[commodorejohn]

Originally Posted by Mrs Beanbag

i like that on Super Mario, you get to practice long jumps even from the beginning, in a fun, safe and rewarding way by trying to jump right to the top of the flag pole at the end of each level. Then by the time you really do need to do a big jump you are not completely unprepared.

Yep. Shigeryu Miyamoto has long been an expert in gradually acclimating the player to gameplay rather organically (that's one of the reasons that it's so sad that Nintendo games are loaded down with 30-minute unskippable tutorials these days...)

And there's really very little pixel-perfect jumping required this side of SMB2j or the later worlds of the original SMB...compare any later Mario game to cheating-bastard platformers like Giana's Return and there's a world of difference.

[Paul_s]

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

There's a difference between sheer frustation and "damn, i try it again". Play Yolanda!

A truly horrible game!

I remember playing a demo of that which came on an Amiga Format cover. Looking at a Youtube video now it seems impossible!

[TCD]

Originally Posted by commodorejohn

Yep. Shigeryu Miyamoto has long been an expert in gradually acclimating the player to gameplay rather organically (that's one of the reasons that it's so sad that Nintendo games are loaded down with 30-minute unskippable tutorials these days...)

I really enjoyed this video about the topic: [ Show youtube player ]

[Retro-Nerd]

Well, SMB 1 is in tradition with the later Game Boy games. Nearly no situations where you have to jump or react in a millisecond. Especially SMB 3 and Super Mario World are different and annoys. One of the reasons why they added battery support i guess.

[Mrs Beanbag]

Originally Posted by TCD

I really enjoyed this video about the topic: [ Show youtube player ]

this is a good series actually... watching all of it now

[TCD]

Originally Posted by Mrs Beanbag

this is a good series actually... watching all of it now

It is I haven't watched all of them, but their approach to analyse games is good.

[john1979]

Super Mario Bros 2 on the SNES continues to be my favourite in terms of level design and interesting gameplay. It was originally Doki Doki Panic in Japan and is therefore nothing like the other Mario games. Being able to pick up virtually any object and enemy allows for very varied play and great puzzles.

Whenever I put in the All-Stars cart I always end up playing this and ignoring the other Mario games.

Does anyone else enjoy watching Game Centre CX? The Doki Doki Panic episode is very good:
[ Show youtube player ]

[gimbal]

SMB2 was released on the NES, but indeed if you have allstars you play it on the SNES

SMB2 is fun and quirky (and HARD), but I don't think for me personally Super Mario World 1/SNES will ever be beaten as the very best Mario game. Fond memories playing that for hours and hours with friends, taking turns trying to get through a level (unwritten rule: no cheesing with the flying cape).

[Marcuz]

Originally Posted by TCD

I really enjoyed this video about the topic: [ Show youtube player ]

That's real cool, thank you for the link!

[gimbal]

A historic moment should not go unnoticed.

[Marcuz]

Originally Posted by gimbal

A historic moment should not go unnoticed.

HAahahha! I did miss that! thank you!

[commodorejohn]

On the whole I prefer SMB3 (it feels more like a Mario game to me, obviously because it didn't start life as something else,) but SMB2/DDP is indeed quite good. It's there, I think, that Nintendo really refined the platformer formula from Super Mario Bros. (which is a classic, but is nevertheless a bit rougher and less polished and refined than later games) into something highly playable.

[Mrs Beanbag]

i was in two minds about SMB2, when it came out, being able to pick the bad guys up and throw them at each other is a really interesting dynamic, but at the same time it was such a break from the previous game, which had the instant gratification of being able to kill them instantly. I'm thinking of ways to have both, now.

[eva]

Here is another popular title, just like Mario that I disliked: I think the worst "platform" game I've ever played for the Amiga was the "Flashback" and "Another World" duo. Omg, I've never played anything more annoying and clunky. I remember going right and having to spend very long and very careful (!) minutes on hitting leeches with my foot. What I remember is that those leeches definitely had perhaps 1 single pixel hotspot and if you tapped your foot too soon or too early, you'd die. You also get a cutscene each and every time you die from those leeches. I still have images in my mind with a black "thing" with a white claw with a little blood on it in my brain. I think that only when I'll die I'll get rid of that image stuck in my mind - either that or a lobotomy, or a garbage collector to rid me of those futile images. Talk about mind control...

I'm not kidding: right from the very start, you have to swim your way out of the pool. You also have to be quick about it because tentacles will grab you and pull you down, or you would drown. At least from what I remember.... And yes, you die again.

Then, again, if you did something you should not do - within seconds (!) in very many cases, yep, you guessed it, you would die. I had that lion chase me for quite a while till I figured out how to get rid of it. Then you had to start over, and repeat, and do that over and over again till you get it right. It got so tedious after a while... Hell, I would have taken anything over it. I've heard that people practiced swearing in front of "Mario Kart" but I really had to wash my hand with soap after playing "Flashback".

The controls were a nightmare - for a "guy in distress", I remember how he took like 500ms to turn around from left to right and run in the other direction. Of course, that time was precious, because the game requires like 1 second or less reactions to the environment. So, yeah, in most cases if you changed your mind half-way and wanted to make the guy run the other way, he took a while and yes, the lion caught up with you and then, yep, you... would... die!

People classify "Flashback" and "Another World" as an adventure, but for me, it is a pure jump & run (ok, jump exactly when you're supposed to and run exactly when you're supposed to - I'm not kidding, 1 second intervals and 1 pixel boundaries) overrated piece of garbage.

I also majorly disliked the graphics and, to me, they just looked cold, frivolous and boring. Although, yes, to the "post-modern" art appreciator, perhaps a black blob running through the screen is an amazing representation of a lion. And perhaps, a planar expressionless face has a great resonance with Picasso adepts. I really just found it dull and boring - then again, I like more colourful worlds (I could name a few).

Then you had the "so-called" puzzles that were not particularly logical in any way. Essentially you would brute-force your way up to some point, then you would die, then you would brute-force your way again, perhaps, going further this time and then die again. After a few cycles of doing that, you progressed the game farther.

I'll toss "Flashback" into the fire anytime. I know it's popular and that it is praised high and low. I played the first time on the Sega at a shop and I remember that we (the kids) changed the game very fast given the other options (ie: Sonic, etc...).