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Old 12 May 2013, 15:40   #441
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i have found one : file 336, DOR GRESTIN.

between two text blocks, there is this : "20,00,20,34,20" when both text should be seperated by "20,00,20". how the parser is supposed to parse this since it's not what it should be ?

another one : file 335, GEMSTONE INN.

there is an empty block declared. it means that instead of $0B (11 blocks) number of block, it's $0A (10 blocks !). and the parser can have a buffer "underrun" aka processing a block with nothing inside as opposed to buffer "overrun" (more text characters than declared in the header values).

And since the game engine must once a text block is parsed, display it, what happens then ? the game can crash, an event can also be not triggered (i guess so).

there are others files with the same problem.

Last edited by dlfrsilver; 12 May 2013 at 16:50.
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Old 12 May 2013, 21:41   #442
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Where are these locations within the game rather than in files? Have you taken a look to see if the v1.05 German ones "clean"?

I don't doubt that these could be anomolies and that you've done a great job finding them. But in my mind finding and changing files is only half the job. Especially when the bugs were not reported.

In my mind it could mean many things :

1) These are game crashing bugs but they are on sub-plots that not many players try and so were never reported?
2) These are not errors but legal codes which do things you don't yet know about?
2) These are errors but the parser is good enough to handle them?
3) These errors are in sections of the game which don't exist anymore?
4) These errors only cause minor text formatting problems and so no-one reported them?

Can we (you) deliberately put errors like this in at the start of the game so we can quickly see the effect of the bugs and then the effect of the fix?

Last edited by alexh; 12 May 2013 at 21:59.
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Old 13 May 2013, 00:16   #443
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexh View Post
Where are these locations within the game rather than in files? Have you taken a look to see if the v1.05 German ones "clean"?

I don't doubt that these could be anomolies and that you've done a great job finding them. But in my mind finding and changing files is only half the job. Especially when the bugs were not reported.

In my mind it could mean many things :

1) These are game crashing bugs but they are on sub-plots that not many players try and so were never reported?
it can be the case indeed.

Quote:
2) These are not errors but legal codes which do things you don't yet know about?
Sorry to say it like this, but the parser itself is "crap". It does blind read, and if it hits anything else than what it was made for, it crash, it doesn't display the text, etc, etc, etc.

Quote:
2) These are errors but the parser is good enough to handle them?
Nope, because i have discovered that some of the crap bytes were even accounted in the header !!!

Quote:
3) These errors are in sections of the game which don't exist anymore?
This game is already huge. There is no room for unused things !

All the texts, because at this very moment i have FULLY translated the game text (except the executables and intro/extro), the german version has very clean script files strangely..... The english release was made using a buggy text tool editor, this explains why many files have crap inside, errors, typos, and so on. The errors i have spotted can't be done by a human, but by a program made to do so.

Dragon Flight had the same problem. No problem in german, but the english and french releases were plagued with bugs made due to a faulty development program. This was confirmed by Udo Fischer.

Quote:
4) These errors only cause minor text formatting problems and so no-one reported them?
Some errors would deliberately make a text no appear and then block you from going further.

Quote:
Can we (you) deliberately put errors like this in at the start of the game so we can quickly see the effect of the bugs and then the effect of the fix?
This program has a very simple rule : The number of text block must be what is really stored in the script file, or else you get a 'missing text block' error message, if your text block has $3F in size character, and you have $4F, the program crash, because the size is used as 'checksum' if you like that 'terminology'.

So including deliberately errors is useless.

i base myself on the errors found in 1Map_texts.amb and 2Map_texts.amb ;

If i find the same error inside 3Map_texts.amb, then those errors are prone to trigger the same problem, logically, right ?

To conclude, the french version had been dealt with by hand, my hand, and since i removed all errors, from all scripts, the french release is the cleanest of all, german release included.

i will wait for CFOU in june, to take care of the executable. In the meanwhile, i finish the translation of the game manual which, from what i have yet, looks very good

Last edited by dlfrsilver; 13 May 2013 at 03:30.
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Old 13 May 2013, 09:31   #444
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Good luck if you want to remove all the trash located at the end of the text blocks, there is really a lot of it !

I was myself too lazy to do that job, mainly because whatever's located after the string's end (the 00 code) is ignored when displaying the text and harmless (doesn't cause any crash).
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Old 13 May 2013, 10:25   #445
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Meynaf, i have removed ALL of them ! all the french files are clean

i have found these crap not only at the end of the files, but also between text blocks.
Since the parser want the seperator '20,00,20', if it doesn't find it, kaboom.

Look at the text like beast cave, or any other one with bad terminator, the parser doesn't like that.
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Old 13 May 2013, 11:23   #446
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Originally Posted by dlfrsilver View Post
Look at the text like beast cave, or any other one with bad terminator, the parser doesn't like that.
Yes, but this case and several others were reported and the reasons itentified and understood.

If yourself and meynef are sure that this stuff isn't supposed to be there and should be corrected then lets have a go at it. I'll allocate a few evenings this week to get upto speed and lets plan for an official English patch which cleans everything up to be tested then released soon?
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Old 13 May 2013, 15:28   #447
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in fact, you'll see that some script files in english are clean while numerous others are 'dirty'.
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Old 14 May 2013, 17:16   #448
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hello, i have found another bug (known i think, the memory manager of this game is buggy, i remember what ST-TH had posted a while ago about this).

When i fly with the broom stick to newlake, the program says file impossible to load 3D background file 31.
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Old 14 May 2013, 23:06   #449
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I *believe* this is a known bug. Predating ST-TH's involvement but he may have done some analysis on the issue.

AFAIK it happens both on the broomstick AND when using the eagle at the same locations. It was not a widely reported problem so I think it depends on your route.

Unknown if it affects the German version.

Why do you use the words "memory manager buggy" have you analyzed the problem?
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Old 15 May 2013, 01:51   #450
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlfrsilver View Post
hello, i have found another bug (known i think, the memory manager of this game is buggy, i remember what ST-TH had posted a while ago about this).

When i fly with the broom stick to newlake, the program says file impossible to load 3D background file 31.
in few weeks, i will have a bit more free times

so i'll help you with pleasure to try to fix some bugs and will male some tools to help you in your work (tools to desassemble txt files creating automaticly relative label, etc..)
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Old 15 May 2013, 04:42   #451
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexh View Post
I *believe* this is a known bug. Predating ST-TH's involvement but he may have done some analysis on the issue.

AFAIK it happens both on the broomstick AND when using the eagle at the same locations. It was not a widely reported problem so I think it depends on your route.

Unknown if it affects the German version.

Why do you use the words "memory manager buggy" have you analyzed the problem?
yes indeed ! the game reports via its internal message : the OS has run out of memory ! And the game exits directly to the workbench.

Also, the game reports corrupted save files (it's not, it's only the memory manager which has memory leaks.....)
this made clear that a special debugging whdload slave is needed, and as such, i will wait for CFOU availability in 2 weeks

i have already started to go to most cities, found little errors here and there, and i have corrected them.

i have one actually in Illien, when talking to a woman. I also confirm through the first tests that if a script file has an erroneous hexa count of the sentence to display, the parser is bugging out !

Going back to the error in file 31 of 3D background, do you know which file it's located in ?

EDIT : Crash source found ! a file is really corrupted or missing ! i have picked the 1map_data, 2map_data,3map_data from the german release, and there is no more problems if you go to twinlake with the broomstick !

EDIT 2 : Bug located in the english file 2Map_data.amb

EDIT 3 : i confirm that the english 2Map_data.amb is knackered. the german file must be used. I made a test, i have picked
the german file, translated it in french like i did with the english one, and it works flawlessly. The english file even if i pick it fresh,
once the files are translated, keep telling me that a file can't be loaded.

i'll look forward with CFOU to see which file it is specifically.

Last edited by dlfrsilver; 15 May 2013 at 09:29.
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Old 19 May 2013, 14:34   #452
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlfrsilver View Post
i met in the 3map_texts.amb container, files which have 11 text blocks declared, when only 10 are inside !
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlfrsilver View Post
i have found one : file 336, DOR GRESTIN.

between two text blocks, there is this : "20,00,20,34,20" when both text should be seperated by "20,00,20".
There are several placeholder strings consisting of $20,$00 (or $34,$00). These are not displayed anywhere but are required for proper access of the following strings, so must not be removed. (Maybe messages that were planned but not put into the game?)

An example from English/Original/3Map_Texts.amb/336:

Code:
00000000  00 0b 00 10 00 bf 00 76  00 83 00 ac 00 70 00 36  |.......v.....p.6|
00000010  00 2f 00 02 00 13 00 3a  20 47 45 4d 53 54 4f 4e  |./.....: GEMSTON|
                ^^^^^ 9th text has length $0002
...
00000350  45 20 53 54 4f 52 45 44  20 48 45 52 45 2e 20 00  |E STORED HERE. .|
00000360  20 00 20 4e 4f 54 48 49  4e 47 20 53 50 45 43 49  | . NOTHING SPECI|
          ^^^^^ 9th text consists of <space><nul>
...
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlfrsilver View Post
a text always start by byte '$20' and ALWAYS finish by 3 bytes : '$20','$00','$20'
No. Texts are $20,"text",$20,$00. The $20 after $00 is the start of the next string. And yes, there are several inconsistancies regarding this in the files, but these are probably caused by the tool Thalion used to create them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dlfrsilver View Post
ok, let me say it like this : the error happens with original 2Map_data.amb

There is something inside which is wrong. If you pick the files which allows to get the map label of Burnville, snakesign, and a third one in english instead of german, translate them, you put them back in the english 2Map_data.amb, go to Newlake, the game crash each time when you enter in town.
The map labels have a *fixed* length of 16 bytes (which includes the \0 terminator IIRC). So you cannot have longer names than that, and you have to pad out shorter ones with \0.

If you change the size of the map label section, internal offsets become wrong and this will crash the game.
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Old 19 May 2013, 18:44   #453
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i made a test by using the german file, and using the exact same translated words, and guess what, it works !

by the way, about the executable and the corrections you made, i contact you by PM.
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Old 21 May 2013, 12:11   #454
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So how close are we to having an almost fully working WHDLOAD eng version of Ambermoon, fully translated?
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Old 21 May 2013, 12:46   #455
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i'm doing the french release. i wait for CFOU availability early june and he will start a special slave to debug the game (a normal slave will come after).

The french release has the most clean script files of the known versions (english and even german!)

The english release need to be fully cleaned of all the typos (not only the already known ones but all the others remaining), i let that to any english fellow who would like to take care of it, since the french release is already huge for me alone.

I have translated on my own more than 270kb of texts !
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Old 22 May 2013, 09:07   #456
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So how close are we to having an almost fully working WHDLOAD eng version of Ambermoon, fully translated?
It's already translated by Thalion themselves. The game has it's own HD installer which works out of the box. There has been no need for WHDload.

The original files were very playable all the way to the end. I've done it several times myself. But it had one or two bad bugs which would spoil the gaming pleasure if you ever came across them and hadn't saved in a while. You can play all the way through and never hit one.

The worst bugs in the English version have already been patched and Meynef has released his own patch.

If you're thinking... "I'll hold off playing for a while, till it's fixed". No need. Download the disks. Install to your hard drive. Apply Meynef's patch and enjoy playing it.
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Old 22 May 2013, 10:55   #457
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Sorry Alex, but there are bugs inside killing the game. I have written them in a notepad, and CFOU will kill them with a special whdload slave

In the english version, as said above, there are texts which won't appear, or which will crash or make the game going bad.
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Old 22 May 2013, 11:06   #458
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlfrsilver View Post
The english release need to be fully cleaned of all the typos (not only the already known ones but all the others remaining), i let that to any english fellow who would like to take care of it, since the french release is already huge for me alone.
What the English version really needs is a proper translation that keeps the spirit of the German texts.

A nice example is the first riddlemouth you encounter in Grandfather's cellar. You get a message upon approaching it, and another when you provide the correct password. Here's the German version:

Code:
DEINE STIMME KENN ICH NICHT,
DU KANNST HIER NICHTS ERREICHEN!
DOCH SAGST DU MIR DAS RICHTGE WORT,
DANN LASS ICH MICH ERWEICHEN.

DICH DRÄNGT DER DURST?
DU SUCHST DEN WEIN?
WOHLAN DENN,
GEH DEN GANG HINEIN!
The English translation of this falls flat:

Code:
I DO NOT KNOW YOUR VOICE,
YOU CANNOT ACHIEVE ANYTHING HERE!
BUT IF YOU SAY THE RIGHT THING,
THEN I SHALL LET YOU GO.

ARE YOU THIRSTY?
WOULD YOU LIKE SOME WINE?
PERHAPS,
THEN GO INTO THE PASSAGEWAY!
It doesn't rhyme like the German version does, and it doesn't have that "jovial feel", it's... MEH.

When I re-worked that text, I came up with this:

Code:
I do not recognise your voice,
which leaves me no other choice!
I will only allow you through,
if you tell me the right clue!

You suffer real thirst?
You hunt for the booze?
Well, enjoy yourself,
while I take a snooze!
It may not be the most perfect translation possible, but it keeps the meaning and the spirit of the German text, IMHO.

Then you have quite a lot of weird translation errors. A good one is the sign outside the wind shrine on the Isle of Winds. German version says "WINDSCHREIN" which properly translates to "WIND SHRINE". English original version has "WIND CALLS", because the translator probably mistook "SCHREIN" for "SCHREI" (the latter being German for "cry" / "shout" / "yell").
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Old 22 May 2013, 11:18   #459
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlfrsilver View Post
In the english version, as said above, there are texts which won't appear, or which will crash or make the game going bad.
Could you give a specific example? Like xMap_Text.amb -> file y -> message z?

I'm pretty sure I've seen all the messages inside the *_text.amb files while playing the game normally (both German and English). Exceptions were the (known) corrupted ones that crash the parser and the two (also known) missing messages in the English version.

(EDIT: And the Thalion office doesn't show the elevator message anymore in the English version for some reason, even though the text is present.)

Last edited by st-th; 22 May 2013 at 11:24. Reason: forgot the thalion office thing
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Old 22 May 2013, 13:49   #460
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Ok for the elevator, it doesn't appears, indeed.

About the texts, i made some tests, and also because when translating, i made some mistakes, during the playtesting, i got texts bugs.

here they are :

if the script files when decompressed has crap like :

00 00 00 00 00 03 00 1B 01 AB

instead of

00 03 00 1B 01 AB

the text in the game doesn't appear or is making a text shifting (displaying the next text just truncated)

next, if in the script file you have something like 20 00 20 00 20 34 20

the parser will hate that because the text can't be NULL. this must be removed.

The parser can only deal with correctly set number of text block, texts block with no errors inside, and no 34 20 something. 34 is not a value the parser can deal with.

Same about the crap at the end of the script files like 20 00 20 1A 57 7E. The three last bytes must be removed (i have met script files where they were even counted in the header, which is completely wrong).

The parser handles script files like this

nbr_of_texts_blocks,textblockX_size,textblockX+1_size,textblockX+2_size,textblockX+3_size,......,20 (marker of the end of the header and beginning of first text block)

and about texts blocks here we are :

20+'text-text-text'+20+00+20 (this exactly how the header count the very one text)
'text-text-text-+20+00+20
'text-text-text-+20+00+20
'text-text-text-+20+00+20
'text-text-text-+20+00+20
'text-text-text-+20+00+20
'text-text-text-+20+00+20

any shit like

'text-text-text-+20+00+20+34+20 is prone to make the parser failing (it's a simple one and very stupid)

About the errors, i met so much that i have cleared them out (aside the ones i wrote on the forest moon) without writing those on a paper or in a notepad text file. After all translating such a game is a pharaonic task, so i let someone else take care of the english release.

Concerning the riddles, well, here is what i used from the german text and my translation :

Je ne reconnais pas le son de ta voix,
tu ne peux donc pas entrer là!
Mais si tu me dis le mot voulu,
Je m'évanouirai sans rien dire de plus!

Tu es assoiffé?
Tu recherches du vin?
Bon alors bienvenue,
poursuis donc ton chemin!

Last edited by dlfrsilver; 16 June 2013 at 18:48.
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