Legality of CoffinOS and Vampire Team - Page 5

DamienD · 02 June 2020, 00:13

Ok, I've now PM'd Turran asking him to take the "EAB File Server" offline until further notice...

I will be personally going through all folders / files on there... this will probably take a few weeks / a month or even longer... don't expect it back anytime soon.

Retro1234 · 02 June 2020, 00:18

that's helpful

shuttlepilot · 02 June 2020, 00:18

@Retro1234

It looks like nobody is stopping you from either posting links or creating that scriipt you mentioned. However, I will point out to you one of the rules for the EAB fileserver.

Quote:

1. DO NOT upload "Workbench Disks", "Kickstart ROMs/Disks" & software or music files still supported/for sale.

Can't be any clearer than that

And now, back to the original thread discussion.

sean_sk · 02 June 2020, 00:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamienD

Someone just sent me two interesting PMs:

Quote:

It reads as follows... AMIGA ROM Operating System and Libraries Powered by 68080 AMMX Apollo Team Bringing 68k back! 3.10 ROM exec.library exec 45.23 (22.09.2016)

Naughty naughty Apollo Team!

Can I ask, how is this statement actually "naughty"?
This is simply an acknowledgement that the operating system and ROM are powered by the Apollo 68080 CPU core, much in the same way a PC manufacturer might state that their Windows PC is powered by an Intel Core i7 CPU.

If Cloanto, who licensed the KS 3.1 ROM to the Apollo Team in the first place, had any sort of problem with this, they would have said so a long time ago.

As it stands the ROM had to be modified with some Vampire specific modules in order for it to work. Cloanto would be well aware of this.

spudje · 02 June 2020, 00:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamienD

Be my guest...
They are distributing "Amiga OS 3.9" in their distro... you show me where there is Amiga OS media on the EAB File Server please?

Well, I think I already gave you a tip. Look in uploads and the user I just mentioned. That user also has a Patreon btw. just saying... Double standards...?

And I don't want to be a snitch and value the work enormously (not paying for his Patreon though), I'm trying to make a point, that's all. I also found similar compilation ISOs in at least 1 other upload folder. The few TOSEC homebrew CD32 compilations I checked indeed did not contain ROMs.

Retro1234 · 02 June 2020, 00:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by shuttlepilot

@Retro1234

It looks like nobody is stopping you from either posting links or creating that scriipt you mentioned. However, I will point out to you one of the rules for the EAB fileserver.

Can't be any clearer than that

And now, back to the original thread discussion.

Thats also really helpful

right remove all coverdisks, Dpaint anything with workbench files Relokick excellent

DamienD · 02 June 2020, 00:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by spudje

That user also has a Patreon btw. just saying... Double standards...?

I'm sorry but how is this double standards exactly???

My beef with developers using Patreon is that they advertise their commercial games here (free advertising), but then post exclusives on Patreon that we at EAB need to pay for.

Amigajay does not do that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by spudje

And I don't want to be a snitch and value the work enormously (not paying for his Patreon though), I'm trying to make a point, that's all. I also found similar compilation ISOs in at least 1 other upload folder.

Oh right, I think it's a bit late for you to say "I don't want to be a snitch"

...and sure; I can really see how much you appreciate their work; and EAB as a whole.

You and others in this thread; are very quick to try to make out that EAB are the bad guys here and hypocritical.

shuttlepilot · 02 June 2020, 00:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retro1234

Thats also really helpful

right remove all coverdisks, Dpaint anything with workbench files Relokick excellent

You'll have to take that up with admin. I don't make the rules here, I just follow them.

spudje · 02 June 2020, 00:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamienD

Amigajay does not do that.

He gives early access to (beta? versions of) said compilations on his Patreon iirc, however it seems he already stopped his Patroen (or was removed).

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamienD

You and others in this thread; are very quick to try to make out that EAB are the bad guys here and hypocritical.

I never said EAB are the bad guys. I'm only pointing out that what you claim of others, can for certain extend also be said about content on the EAB site.

You know damn well I value (including donations) EAB and you personally with all the work you do. A difference in opinion is not the same as calling the persion you disagree with a bad guy, at least not for me.

Retro1234 · 02 June 2020, 00:34

no you pointed out you take it up with them.

Damien you messed up now your using crazy logic this is just bizarre.

I don't even care but getting dragged into this ridiculous argument.

DamienD · 02 June 2020, 00:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by spudje

He gives early access to (beta? versions of) said compilations on his Patreon iirc

So what; he also then shares the files on here... what's you're point exactly???

DamienD · 02 June 2020, 00:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retro1234

Damien you messed up now your using crazy logic this is just bizarre.

I don't even care but getting dragged into this ridiculous argument.

Care to explain, I really don't have any idea what it is you're on about...

Thomas Richter · 02 June 2020, 00:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hewitson

Well to put it into perspective it would be like someone complaining about people downloading Windows 98 in the "X86 Discussion" thread.

Equally illegal, copyrighted software.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hewitson

No, of course I'm not. But I wouldn't call any new games abandonware. An operating system that is 20 years old is a different story.

No, it's exactly the same story. Either it is released by its owner, or not. As far as 3.9 is concerned, it is not. Even worse, one can still buy 3.9.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hewitson

If they were selling the actual OS for profit, then I would agree. But they are selling the hardware and providing the OS free of charge.

They are selling the actual Os for profit. "They" as in a couple of Amiga shops where you can still get 3.9. "They" as the Vampire team as part of the hardware.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hewitson

It's really not much different to a site providing a free download to 3.9, and I don't see those websites copping a bashing on here even though quite a few of them exist.

Just because there are sides that provide pirated software does not make pirating legal.

spudje · 02 June 2020, 00:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamienD

So what; he also then shares the files on here... what's you're point exactly???

Files that contain copyrighted material (the kickstart files). This is not different from what the Apollo guys do, they share Coffin... So if you judge Apollo, you should judge Amigajay.

DamienD · 02 June 2020, 00:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by spudje

Files that contain copyrighted material (the kickstart files). This is not different from what the Apollo guys do, they share Coffin... So if you judge Apollo, you should judge Amigajay.

What people do on their Patreon site is none of my business!!! You expect me to police that too?

As I already said in this thread; I wasn't aware of KS ROMs inside these compilations on the EAB File Sever.

They will be removed!!!

...but let's be honest, and I'm not saying it ok... a few old KS ROMs is totally different to distributing the entire "Amiga OS 3.9" isn't it.

BippyM · 02 June 2020, 00:44

Okay this is ridiculous now.. The issue is this, and I am sick of repeating this:

Apollo is a legitimate business, they sell hardware, they have a right to do this
Apollo team are a legitimate business, they do not have the right to give away anything that isn't licensed to them. THey are risking THEIR business, in an extremely volatile market that is backstabbing and will happily screw each other over
Apollo Team may have the rights to distribute this image file, however I doubt it,
Apollo team can, and should seperate themselves from this image
Crearing an imagefile that does NOT contain any software that is considered as "HOT" is not difficult, they're just lazy!!!
They should just create an install script to installed Vampire to a users existing WB setup
They most likely, definitely do not have a license for WB3.9!!!

Now we can be as pathetic and as pedantic as you want, there is not "KNOWN" and "INTENTIONALLY" hot software on the EAB, if there is it will be removed. EAB does not make any money from selling anything, EAB is not a business!!

Comparing Apollo Team to EAB is like comparing an Apple to an Orange. Both are fruit, but they are very different!

utri007 · 02 June 2020, 00:46

Difference is that Apollo team are making money with pirated software.

BippyM · 02 June 2020, 00:48

The fact is, this image will only work with a vampire, and is supplied by the vampire team on their website.. Therefore, they are selling it!!

Hewitson · 02 June 2020, 00:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas Richter

Equally illegal, copyrighted software.

You know as well as I do that no one gives a shit about anyone pirating Windows 98. You're just here to be argumentative, as usual.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas Richter

No, it's exactly the same story. Either it is released by its owner, or not. As far as 3.9 is concerned, it is not. Even worse, one can still buy 3.9.

Who cares. It's 20 years old.

Quote:

Originally Posted by utri007

Difference is that Apollo team are making money with pirated software.

They aren't selling the software.

spudje · 02 June 2020, 00:53

I agree with BippyM. However Utri007, however illegal Coffin is, apollo team is not selling it. The V4SA would have costed just the same with or without Coffin at A34. There is a dubious independent person selling ready made CF cards with Coffin. Some people on the Apollo forum are asking the Apollo guys to at least ban him. And here, just as with distancing from Coffin, they don't do that. And I fully agree that is harmful, most of all for their own credibility.

02 June 2020, 00:44	#96
BippyM Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Derby, UK Age: 48 Posts: 9,355	Okay this is ridiculous now.. The issue is this, and I am sick of repeating this: Apollo is a legitimate business, they sell hardware, they have a right to do this Apollo team are a legitimate business, they do not have the right to give away anything that isn't licensed to them. THey are risking THEIR business, in an extremely volatile market that is backstabbing and will happily screw each other over Apollo Team may have the rights to distribute this image file, however I doubt it, Apollo team can, and should seperate themselves from this image Crearing an imagefile that does NOT contain any software that is considered as "HOT" is not difficult, they're just lazy!!! They should just create an install script to installed Vampire to a users existing WB setup They most likely, definitely do not have a license for WB3.9!!! Now we can be as pathetic and as pedantic as you want, there is not "KNOWN" and "INTENTIONALLY" hot software on the EAB, if there is it will be removed. EAB does not make any money from selling anything, EAB is not a business!! Comparing Apollo Team to EAB is like comparing an Apple to an Orange. Both are fruit, but they are very different!

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02 June 2020, 00:13	#81
DamienD Banned Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: London / Sydney Age: 47 Posts: 20,420	Ok, I've now PM'd Turran asking him to take the "EAB File Server" offline until further notice... I will be personally going through all folders / files on there... this will probably take a few weeks / a month or even longer... don't expect it back anytime soon.

02 June 2020, 00:18	#82
Retro1234 Phone Homer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: 5150 Posts: 5,773	that's helpful

02 June 2020, 00:34	#90
Retro1234 Phone Homer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: 5150 Posts: 5,773	no you pointed out you take it up with them. Damien you messed up now your using crazy logic this is just bizarre. I don't even care but getting dragged into this ridiculous argument.

02 June 2020, 00:46	#97
utri007 mä vaan Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Finland Posts: 1,653	Difference is that Apollo team are making money with pirated software.

02 June 2020, 00:48	#98
BippyM Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Derby, UK Age: 48 Posts: 9,355	The fact is, this image will only work with a vampire, and is supplied by the vampire team on their website.. Therefore, they are selling it!!

02 June 2020, 00:53	#100
spudje Registered User Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,406	I agree with BippyM. However Utri007, however illegal Coffin is, apollo team is not selling it. The V4SA would have costed just the same with or without Coffin at A34. There is a dubious independent person selling ready made CF cards with Coffin. Some people on the Apollo forum are asking the Apollo guys to at least ban him. And here, just as with distancing from Coffin, they don't do that. And I fully agree that is harmful, most of all for their own credibility.

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