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Old 17 February 2020, 07:09   #1
Hewitson
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Xenon II Intro. Amiga Vs ST.

I would like to hear people's preferences on the Xenon II intro. Yes, we all know it's a shit game, but the music is pretty special.

In my opinion the ST kicks the Amiga's ass. I've never said that before, and I'll probably never say it again, but it really does with the music on this game, the first Xenon also sounds better on the ST.
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Old 17 February 2020, 07:55   #2
005AGIMA
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Is this a poor capture of the ST version?
Sounds TERRIBLE!!! Sounds almost 8bit

Is this thread you trolling again? lol.
[ Show youtube player ]

The Amiga version is like naked angels singing sweet nothings in my ears in comparison.
[ Show youtube player ]

God It's night and day lol

Also I'm not sure I personally subscribe to the "crap game" trendy stance.

Back in the day, compared to other games of the time, it was both very playable and satisfying to spam the fire button on (the whole point of a shooter).

I think we get onto the "god that was crap" band wagon after 30 years, with our vision blurred by better games that came out far later. Just my objective opinion

Last edited by 005AGIMA; 17 February 2020 at 08:02.
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Old 17 February 2020, 08:09   #3
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LOL, in this case the difference is very clear and the Amiga sound is superior.
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Old 17 February 2020, 10:02   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hewitson View Post
we all know it's a shit game
CVG - AMI: 96% AST: 94%
Zzap!64 - AMI: 97%
Atari ST User - AST: 10/10
The Games Machine - AMI: 96% AST: 95%
Zero - AMI: 94% AST: 93%
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Old 17 February 2020, 10:55   #5
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I actually prefer the PC-speaker version of the Xenon II title track, of course mostly because of nostalgia (it's the version I played back in the days) and it sounded so much better than anything else on PC (beeper) at the time.

Both the ST and Amiga versions sound a bit thin to me, especially knowing how much better both versions could sound
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Old 17 February 2020, 14:08   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreadnought View Post
CVG - AMI: 96% AST: 94%
Zzap!64 - AMI: 97%
Atari ST User - AST: 10/10
The Games Machine - AMI: 96% AST: 95%
Zero - AMI: 94% AST: 93%

Pretty normal for English mags back then. But in Germany, for some unknown reason, the game was hyped too. Even back in 1990 i thought it was a stinker. Not a chance against the way earlier released Hybris and the competing Battle Squadron.

For the ST though it was one of the better shmups.
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Old 17 February 2020, 14:28   #7
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Xenon II was one of the first games I actually bought when I started getting my own money - prior to that it was piracy all the way.

And I freaking LOVED it. Finished it many many times and kept going back.
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Old 17 February 2020, 14:46   #8
deladrevoc
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Wink

CDTV

[ Show youtube player ]

Enough said
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Old 17 February 2020, 15:33   #9
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CDTV

[ Show youtube player ]

Enough said

I hate Colin Shop in this version: "That will cost: ..." - and then pause, instead of a price.
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Old 18 February 2020, 04:56   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 005AGIMA
Is this a poor capture of the ST version?
Sounds TERRIBLE!!! Sounds almost 8bit
I'm pretty sure it would have be less than 8 bit for the ST to be able to play it back.

But to my ears, it's so much faster and has so much more energy than the Amiga version.

To be clear I am referring to the sampled music at the start of the game, NOT the ingame music/title tune. However I do prefer the ST version of that, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dreadnought View Post
CVG - AMI: 96% AST: 94%
Zzap!64 - AMI: 97%
Atari ST User - AST: 10/10
The Games Machine - AMI: 96% AST: 95%
Zero - AMI: 94% AST: 93%
Plenty of shit games got great reviews.

To anyone that's ever played a Japanese shoot em up, Xenon II is completely unplayable. It's a joke of a game.
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Old 18 February 2020, 08:26   #11
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Xenon II ST intro music is 8khz 8 bit pre-rendered sample, while Amiga version appears to be kinda normal sound tracker music.
Thus the musician had more freedom, but less space (it's quite short).
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Old 18 February 2020, 09:19   #12
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Originally Posted by meynaf View Post
Xenon II ST intro music is 8khz 8 bit pre-rendered sample, while Amiga version appears to be kinda normal sound tracker music.
Thus the musician had more freedom, but less space (it's quite short).
Amiga Xenon 2 has a crappy player routine for the title screen, same with Amiga SOTB 1 for its title screen, compared to the ST equivalents. I dunno why, but the Demoscene proves that the Amiga is far and away capable of better. I know that the Demoscene around the time of those games' release was probably about the same, and they were still perfecting the player routines, but generally I don't like pre-1990 games nor Demoscene. Afterwards is when they got much better.
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Old 18 February 2020, 09:25   #13
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Originally Posted by Foebane View Post
Amiga Xenon 2 has a crappy player routine for the title screen, same with Amiga SOTB 1 for its title screen, compared to the ST equivalents.
What was wrong with the replayers they used? They seem to play the music perfectly.
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Old 18 February 2020, 09:37   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foebane View Post
Amiga Xenon 2 has a crappy player routine for the title screen, same with Amiga SOTB 1 for its title screen
Are you sure you're not confusing "player routine" with the samples being used in the tune?
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Old 18 February 2020, 09:50   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd View Post
Pretty normal for English mags back then. But in Germany, for some unknown reason, the game was hyped too. Even back in 1990 i thought it was a stinker. Not a chance against the way earlier released Hybris and the competing Battle Squadron.
Hybris and Battle Squadron are decent games, but it does not mean Xenon 2 isn't. It easily beats these two when it comes to fx, and is certainly no worse gameplay wise - it has different style perhaps, as most Bitmap Bros games do, bit slower and more original, but still quite good. I'd say it's more interesting and innovative than the other ones (ever heard of retros in a shoot'em up before?). The only flaw in Xenon 2 is a somewhat suspect steering, but it's something I got used to quite fast.

It's okay to dislike a game but calling a competent product a "stinker" is just not very fair.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hewitson View Post
Plenty of shit games got great reviews.

To anyone that's ever played a Japanese shoot em up, Xenon II is completely unplayable. It's a joke of a game.
It'd be interesting to hear what other games which got >90% scores across the board you also consider "shit"?

Funnily enough I actually do play Japanese arcade shootem'ups regularly and somehow still find Xenon 2 quite playable, enjoyable even. Yes, it's not Raiden or Batsugun, but again, like I said above it's simply different.

Trying to make it out like a complete disaster for zero actual reasons, apart from "muh Nippon shmups!!11!" and game mag conspiracy is just silly. I believe this is what kids these days refer to as an edgelord meme.
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Old 18 February 2020, 09:53   #16
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A competent product? Look at the framerate for gods sake. It's a direct conversion from the ST that makes no use of the Amiga hardware, and it's a pile of shit as a result.
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Old 18 February 2020, 10:16   #17
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I don't know which is better, but i know it was phenomenal on the ST. Graphics and sound.
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Old 18 February 2020, 10:30   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hewitson View Post
What was wrong with the replayers they used? They seem to play the music perfectly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by britelite View Post
Are you sure you're not confusing "player routine" with the samples being used in the tune?
Let me clarify: Whilst the samples on Amiga sound better than ST (naturally, considering the ST's limits), the notes being played on Amiga sound "stilted", like the notes are not hitting exactly the same time each time, so the exact number of milliseconds between each one varies. This is most noticeable on Shadow of the Beast. Whether this is down to poor samples or a poor replayer, I'm not sure, but plenty of other game tunes I've heard don't sound this way.

Atari ST - Music sounds a bit poorer, but plays smoothly
[ Show youtube player ]

Amiga - Music sounds better, but playback doesn't feel as smooth
[ Show youtube player ]

I noticed this was the case with Amiga Xenon II as well.
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Old 18 February 2020, 10:36   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foebane
Let me clarify: Whilst the samples on Amiga sound better than ST (naturally, considering the ST's limits), the notes being played on Amiga sound "stilted", like the notes are not hitting exactly the same time each time, so the exact number of milliseconds between each one varies. This is most noticeable on Shadow of the Beast. Whether this is down to poor samples or a poor replayer, I'm not sure, but plenty of other game tunes I've heard don't sound this way.
I do now see what you mean, actually. The Amiga sounds particularly poor when the Reflections picture is displayed.
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Old 18 February 2020, 14:15   #20
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A competent product? Look at the framerate for gods sake. It's a direct conversion from the ST that makes no use of the Amiga hardware, and it's a pile of shit as a result.
Inferior port doesn't equal a shit game, especially when differences are minuscule and the game in question plays just fine.

By this logic you could write off the vast majority of arcade to console/micro ports or modern console to PC ones. Luckily it does not work like that.
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