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Old 01 January 2020, 02:27   #281
KK/Altair
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Hey, your converter didn't convert the floor and ceiling? I am very disappointed!
It did! It's just a 1x1 texture.
But jokes aside, it really does capture the texture average color and apply lighting to it.

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If you still want to have more fluidity, you can easily achieve that just by adding some (very low volume) music bellow your voice over, and when you, for example, just wanna show the level, just leave music (without your voice over), for several seconds, and that's it.
Nice idea. But I'll just try noise gate first and just let it go this time. Otherwise I'm seriously risking getting stuck with looking for proper and legal music (or worse: trying to make one myself). Perfectionism is both a blessing and a curse.

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Look at videos of "Modern Vintage Gamer" on youtube. That guy DIDN'T know how to edit, but learned, and now he is doing that very well, and relaxed.
That's exactly how it works for literally everything.

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So, we will be able to create levels very easy, and it's great.
That's the plan. As you can see, the map is compiled right into the game as C code right now, because that's the easiest way I could experiment with it. You have no idea how many times the map data structures changed already - and I have no idea how many times they will change in the future. But getting conversion process streamlined will be the next task after making demo level and releasing something playable. I can see a possible problem with the converter being Windows-only, though, but it was easier for me to get it done this way.

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I assume you already know how to convert enemies, and doom type quests (keys and doors).
Now, this "quest" stuff bothers me. Will there be a possibility of any other type of quests, rather then: get a key here to open door here?
I mean, if it's only keys, it's awesome It's still much more then I thought it will ever be.
But if users were able to create some kind of (very primitive) rpg... that would be... beyond dream.
The scripting language is already "in". At this moment it's outputting assembly files rather than loadable binaries (rule #1: get things DONE), but eventually it will emit binary executable ready to be loaded as part of the map, or some kind of intermediate form if viruses spreading through user maps threaten to become a thing.

There are some things hardcoded right now in the engine, like HUD layout or moving level parts (only 64-unit, axis-aligned doors are supported right now), but a lot of things can be done just by changing scripts right now - monsters, items, weapons and such. But eventually we will get to the point where everything is scriptable - that's the point of having an engine.

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Why would you care?
I know I sound rather arrogant, but usually people that only criticize and judge everything somebody else made, never made anything.
Because if I didn't care, I could just as well keep this project in my drawer.
I care about opinion of people who are interested in this project, because they are the ones who can provide feedback and suggestions I couldn't otherwise thought of (e.g. the note about the cooling fan was in fact more like a asking for help).
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Old 01 January 2020, 11:19   #282
no9
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Originally Posted by KK/Altair View Post
Nice idea. But I'll just try noise gate first and just let it go this time. Otherwise I'm seriously risking getting stuck with looking for proper and legal music (or worse: trying to make one myself). Perfectionism is both a blessing and a curse.
I wouldn't bother with that noise. In your recording it is very low. Even after normalizing your audio in editor the noise wasn't annoying to me at all. What is more apparent the recording contains lots of clicks. Mouth clicks, microphone clicks and less importantly mouse clicks. I suspect you record it with mouth very close to the microphone. I think that increasing distance to the mic is the first thing could improve your voice recording. You also probably don't hear it on laptop but there is quite lot of bass content which could be treated with high pass filter set to 100-120hZ. But this can reduce itself to some extent giving more distance to the microphone. You don't hear that on laptop speakers.

I don't know what audio options offers video editor you use, but if you are unsure about final level of audio you can render your video and then load audio only track to any usual audio editor like Audacity. You can see at what level your audio ended up and correct it by normalizing it.

If you like to glue splices of audio you place in the video you can add some room noise to the whole audio track instead of music. This sounds counterintuitive but can help. Room noise is the natural sound for our ears not the digital silence. I mean something that appear in your video between 0:30-0:33.

So in the end - it is quite allright. It's informative, I got message you wanted to deliver with the video. I think the more you will record your recording skills will improve. So record more
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Old 01 January 2020, 16:05   #283
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Hey KK! Can you post short status report of your game? What is done, what needs to be done, etc.
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Old 02 January 2020, 09:25   #284
KK/Altair
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What is more apparent the recording contains lots of clicks. Mouth clicks, microphone clicks and less importantly mouse clicks. I suspect you record it with mouth very close to the microphone. I think that increasing distance to the mic is the first thing could improve your voice recording.
Thanks for the suggestion. I was aware of the mouse clicks and if it's annoying (even a tiny bit) I'll should be able to eliminate them - either by cutting the clips or using external MIDI controller to start/stop recording. The mic distance might be a good suggestion too, but I'm not sure if I should change that in the middle of a video, because I still have material to edit and voice for this "episode". I expect it to be 10-15 minutes in the end.

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You also probably don't hear it on laptop but there is quite lot of bass content which could be treated with high pass filter set to 100-120hZ. But this can reduce itself to some extent giving more distance to the microphone. You don't hear that on laptop speakers.
I'm using ATH-M40fs headphones for monitoring and they are very good at reproducing bass (even a bit too good). But again, if that's the problem, lowpassing it should be easy enough.

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I don't know what audio options offers video editor you use, but if you are unsure about final level of audio you can render your video and then load audio only track to any usual audio editor like Audacity. You can see at what level your audio ended up and correct it by normalizing it.
I'm using DaVinci Resolve. It has internal mixer with meters and stuff, but somehow I just wasn't paying attention to it, so it should be as simple as turning a fader a bit up. If required, I can also use FL Studio to do any required corrections, but I don't think I will have to leave the Resolve environment. Its mixer can also load effects and VSTs, so I should be able to implement any necessary corrections there.

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If you like to glue splices of audio you place in the video you can add some room noise to the whole audio track instead of music. This sounds counterintuitive but can help. Room noise is the natural sound for our ears not the digital silence. I mean something that appear in your video between 0:30-0:33.
At one point I actually started recording my clips longer than needed, just to provide even static, but explicitly adding it to remaining gaps should also be a good idea.

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So in the end - it is quite allright. It's informative, I got message you wanted to deliver with the video. I think the more you will record your recording skills will improve. So record more
Thanks. Record more - that's exactly my idea.

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Hey KK! Can you post short status report of your game? What is done, what needs to be done, etc.
Done: core gameplay, 1 big playable level with 3 types of monsters, 4 weapons, keys, items and stuff. Second (demo) level in the making.

To do: I don't even want to think about it all.
But from the top of my list right now:
- get demo level done complete with making-of videos
- make promo video & release the playable thing (free playable demo + big map for potential supporters)
- get map making pipeline to the public (so everyone can make new maps)
...
- and the varying floor height should definitely be addressed at one point, to make the engine doom-worthy
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Old 02 January 2020, 23:37   #285
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KK, once you resolve the floor height issue, and a few other things, I hope this gets spread far and wide, not just in the Amiga computing community but in the gaming scene at large. It will be very satisfying to see a stock A500 running DOOM, not because I don't have a way to play DOOM, but because showing of what a dedicated effort back in the day could accomplish.

DOOM on the Amiga would've sold like hotcakes if someone as talented as you had taken a crack at porting it.
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Old 03 January 2020, 00:05   #286
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Originally Posted by b0lt-thrower View Post
DOOM on the Amiga would've sold like hotcakes if someone as talented as you had taken a crack at porting it.
Sorry to disappoint, but this is not Doom and is not planned to be one. Doom maps are too detailed for this engine to handle with reasonable framerate, all the sprite & texture data would require expanding memory to 4 MB or beyond and it's running half the resolution original Doom did. So I have decided to make just a doom clone with dedicated maps that are just compex enough to be interesting and fun while avoiding expectations to match the original Doom exactly. It's also more fun this way, because it opens room for creativity (new maps, monsters, weapons and everything).


But the idea still is to make something that was thought impossible for a long time.
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Old 03 January 2020, 01:56   #287
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Originally Posted by KK/Altair View Post
Sorry to disappoint, but this is not Doom and is not planned to be one. Doom maps are too detailed for this engine to handle with reasonable framerate, all the sprite & texture data would require expanding memory to 4 MB or beyond and it's running half the resolution original Doom did. So I have decided to make just a doom clone with dedicated maps that are just compex enough to be interesting and fun while avoiding expectations to match the original Doom exactly. It's also more fun this way, because it opens room for creativity (new maps, monsters, weapons and everything).


But the idea still is to make something that was thought impossible for a long time.
I hear you loud and clear. But with that said, a lot of DOOM ports (the Jag for example) were cut down, too, for that very reason (low RAM, etc.)

But please, don't misunderstand me: what you're doing is just amazing and I'm a big fan of this. It's making me want to track down an A500 just to play it when it releases.
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Old 27 January 2020, 13:02   #288
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KK, enough of polishing! Show some more cool stuff!
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Old 27 January 2020, 17:21   #289
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As far as I'm concerned this is the ultimate Amiga achievement. It shows it could have done it back then. I'm pretty sure once a release is made TheRegister etc. will pick up the story. I'd buy a boxed copy.
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Old 27 January 2020, 18:37   #290
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Was about to post on how a doom clone in the 1200 would have sold, but then i did remember there was Breathless, technically valid and decently performing on base 1200+RAM; the only problem on Breathless was, more than the technical achievement, the gameplay itself; uninspired level design, much lower enemy AI than Doom and less atmosphere.
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Old 27 January 2020, 21:04   #291
no9
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As far as I'm concerned this is the ultimate Amiga achievement. It shows it could have done it back then.
I'm not sure about this considering that now people have 20 or 30 years of experience as individual programmers and as collective with all knowledge gathered online or elsewhere. There are plenty of tools now not available back then for programming and quick testing results. And still it takes months or years to complete such project. So in theory it was possible. In reality it was not the case and I think that was the reasons.

I look at this more as personal achievement. Amiga makes it possible but not in easy way by any means.
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Old 27 January 2020, 22:17   #292
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Originally Posted by saimon69 View Post
Was about to post on how a doom clone in the 1200 would have sold, but then i did remember there was Breathless, technically valid and decently performing on base 1200+RAM; the only problem on Breathless was, more than the technical achievement, the gameplay itself; uninspired level design, much lower enemy AI than Doom and less atmosphere.
In general no Amiga fps (except Genetic Species perhaps - to some extend) ever got ANY close gameplay wise to Doom or any of the other fine PC first person shooters from that era.

Imho the level design in the Amiga games, from Breathless to AB3D to Gloom e.t.c. is/was ok (nothing spectacular but at least serviceable). Atmoshpere is also not an issue, many Amiga games absolutely nailed that aspect. It's the movement, enemies and shooting that sucks the most in those games.

In regards to movement, it usually feels you are moving a tank in Amiga titles. F.e it takes a full 2 seconds to do a 90 degree turn in Breathless. Strafing is slow, walking is slow and generally mobility suffers signifficantly. To this end, also the control method chosen is what affects this part the most, almost no Amiga fps game makes use of mouse, which would have given better, faster and more accurate controls overal.

The next culprit are the enemies and weapons. Every enemy in Doom has a different quirk, which pushes the player to deal with each one in a different manner. This creates a large possibility space for the gameplay to emerge, forcing the player to constantly move, prioritise targets and choose the right weapon for the right job:
[ Show youtube player ]
The video above is highly recommended for a detailed and thorough analysis on the subject.
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Old 28 January 2020, 10:55   #293
gimbal
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The enemies in Doom were well-designed, even when they were just a few pixels in the distance you could still spot which enemy they were because every enemy has it's own unique palette.

Youtuber decino makes interesting videos about such topics:

[ Show youtube player ]
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Old 29 January 2020, 10:18   #294
rothers
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If this gets a boxed release can you please go all retro and pretend in the instructions that it was made in the 80s and the game style is a new concept? I'd love that.
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Old 29 January 2020, 13:35   #295
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If this gets a boxed release can you please go all retro and pretend in the instructions that it was made in the 80s and the game style is a new concept? I'd love that.
Hah, that would be funny.
Should he add a line: "In case of dizziness, please stop playing the game for about 30 minutes, then proceed"?
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Old 11 February 2020, 13:36   #296
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*bump*

Any updates?
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Old 12 February 2020, 09:58   #297
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Too bad Ocean's coder didn't have this engine when they have made the 3D sections of Jurassic Park.
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Old 13 February 2020, 10:00   #298
KK/Altair
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*bump*

Any updates?
Just yesterday I finally got through the editing the video. I'm still looking for a good approach to editing, because right now it took me an hour (a quite taxing hour) to edit just one minute. And the video turned out to be about 15 minutes long. Now I just have to record voiceovers and that's it (I worked with subtitles, because I can't record at home).

Next time I should think of some other approach to videomaking (suggestions welcome!), because recording work process and then cutting it & speeding up to highlight only interesting points while keeping the process intact requires quite a lot of work. But maybe that's just my perfectionism.



Man, editing in Resolve does take a lot of... resolve.
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Old 13 February 2020, 10:30   #299
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I've done some video editing for the videos on my YouTube channel. Varying from really simple stuff to more complicated scenes.

In general, I'd say there's many ways to make it easier/quicker, but which ones will work for you is somewhat personal. But I'd still like to help, so here's my personal top list (in order of how much time they saved me).
  1. Plan ahead and try to record mainly/only that which you want to show. This might be a no-brainer, but it's so easy to just record an hour or more of footage and then spend a lot of time splicing out the five minutes you want to show. Same with effects etc, if you want to include them - try to record your video in such a way they make it easy to do so. It also helps to keep notes of where in the source video you can find what.
  2. Keep your edits simple and few. This was key for me, I went completely overboard and did so many splits/effects/transitions. This costs a ton of time, so try to not do that
  3. Accept it won't be perfect, no matter what. Remember: even if you only spend a bit of effort, you're already above what many/most people do on YouTube. So, don't make it hard on yourself and accept that some edits might not be perfect, or be off by a frame.
  4. Learn how to efficiently use your editor of choice. Most editors are based around a specific workflow, try to use your editor in that way instead of trying to force your preferred way. Similarly, most editors offer automation of some tasks or allow video-wide colour/audio correction. Use those things to make life easier.

Do note that I'm just some random dude who likes editing the odd video, so perhaps others have different/better tips. Still, hope this helps

Edit: one minor addition here, sometimes it can be due to the editor you've chosen. There are many, so if the above doesn't help the editor might just not be "for you". Don't hesitate to try something else in that case. I switched editors three times before I found one I was happy with.

Last edited by roondar; 13 February 2020 at 10:36.
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Old 13 February 2020, 10:43   #300
Steril707
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As someone just wanting to see the engine in action, I think I'd be happy with just a screen capture of 2 minutes showing what's happening.

This thing is impressive enough, no need to make a hollywood movie out of it..
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