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Old 25 February 2010, 17:24   #1
Jgames
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Using lores, normal, or highres on Winuae?

Hi everybody;
Just played Gods again on my laptop; i found that using "lores" on winuae display settings gives the best image quality.
It may seem strange, but this is what i found.

These latest Winuae versions are just incredible for rendering Amiga games; with the auto scale, auto resize, and scanlines, and aspect ratio settings, you can get some incredible results.

Played gods on a 17" (19:10) laptop, full screen, and full stretch, the result is just amazing, you just forget it the game is emulated!, it looks like an xbox live hires game.
Great job Tony

Before i forget, why "lores" gives better results?
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Old 25 February 2010, 18:21   #2
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Because games use the low resolution mode.

If you double the number of pixels by going into hires, it affects the scaling adversely, both for hardware scaling (selecting a fullscreen resolution) and for some filter combinations in WinUAE too, I'd imagine.

In hires, a lores pixel is split into two rectangular pixels that are scaled and filtered separately.
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Old 25 February 2010, 19:18   #3
Toni Wilen
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Automatic "resolution" change is planned but still not implemented (use "lores" if whole screen is lores, switch to "hires" if program uses hires or lores+hires), switch must be totally invisible and it is easier said than done.
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Old 25 February 2010, 19:20   #4
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Especially if there are splits with different resolution in the copperlist...
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Old 25 February 2010, 19:41   #5
Toni Wilen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Photon View Post
Especially if there are splits with different resolution in the copperlist...
That is not a problem, lores+hires = select hires, always select "largest" resolution if multiple resolutions are detected.

Problem is internal emulation code that is not made for on the fly mode changes (resolution/doubling etc..)
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Old 25 September 2010, 04:04   #6
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What about games (like my old Blitz 2 project ' [ Show youtube player ]', recorded in lowres) which have a low-resolution screen/display covering most of the screen for the action, and a small screen/panel at the bottom in med-res (hires+no interlacing) with text?

This introduces a dilemma. Using hires (with or without vertical doubling) will give pixel-perfect Amiga emulation with 'null filter', however filters like HQ2X won't work properly (except on the hires panel), and will also be much slower.

If lowres mode is selected (and no vertical doubling), filters like HQ2X will work most effectively for the most of the screen, however the panel at the bottom will have its resolution cropped and filtered, making it look somewhat distorted and less detailed than the original. Text may still be readable however (but may look odd).

For that game in particular, there are no perfect settings for those who want to use filters. Still, both the above options work reasonably well. Often I'd rather sacrifice the resolution of the small panel to get the game looking as crisp as with HQ2X with bilinear hardware filtering (like the image below).

Ideally, WinUAE would be able to run in hires mode (with or without vertical doubling), and be able to filter low-resolution screens as well as high-resolution ones (or give the option to only filter low-resolution screens to save CPU load).
So that the main screen in 'Noid' would look the same as in lores mode with the filter, and the small panel would look the same as in current hires mode (with or without a filter).


P.S.
Here's a little demonstration (from Kega Fusion) of what the HQ2X pixel filter can do combined with hardware bilinear filtering.
Quite the transformation of a humble pixellated hedgehog!


The Sega Megadrive/Genesis was (AFAIK) limited to low resolution in games, thus not creating the dilemma seen in Amiga games which mix low and high resolution screens. (Fortunately, the majority of Amiga games were also low resolution throughout.)

Last edited by Mequa; 25 September 2010 at 05:05.
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Old 14 October 2010, 10:22   #7
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Hi Tony;
Any chance of having automatic resolution selection in this beta?, from what i undestood from your post, it's hard to acheive.
But, still it would be very nice, and would turn the amiga emulation to be just like the console emulations, (you put the cartdrige and relax), this will make Winuae more and more accessible to non tech people (and there are a lot).

(Also, a gui redesign would be very welcome (something like Kgen GUI, you have a top menu, and when you click on the fullscreen emulator with right mouse button, you get a context menu ), a huge task, but why not, when time is come, especially that i understand you want to make it cross platfrom)
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Old 14 October 2010, 10:37   #8
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Do not compare fixed hardware consoles to home computer with dozens of different models. Do not suggest GUIs that only work with fixed hardware console emulators.

Also most other computers and consoles can't have mixed resolutions.

Try again
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Old 14 October 2010, 10:52   #9
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Ok, let's take the Bluemsx emulator (multi computer emulator) for example, it has a top screen menu "file, options etc..."

As for the mixed resolution, for the games that use it (not many i hope) then
as you said "pick largest resolution" will do?
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Old 14 October 2010, 11:04   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jgames View Post
Ok, let's take the Bluemsx emulator (multi computer emulator) for example, it has a top screen menu "file, options etc..."
and whats the difference when compared to items in treeview? Same thing in different layout.

I hate using normal menus in emulators (like in Vice), I want to have all options quickly available without jumping around different menus (and even worse, submenus)

This is only a personal preference, not necessarily "better" or "worse" way to do same things.

Quote:
As for the mixed resolution, for the games that use it (not many i hope) then
as you said "pick largest resolution" will do?
I know but console comparisons equals stupid reply.

EDIT: I'll try to add not-so-perfectly-working automatic selection soon..

Last edited by Toni Wilen; 14 October 2010 at 13:48.
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Old 14 October 2010, 11:14   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
I hate using normal menus in emulators (like in Vice), I want to have all options quickly available without jumping around different menus (and even worse, submenus)
Second that. Really prefer 'panels' instead of menus
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Old 14 October 2010, 17:00   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
I know but console comparisons equals stupid reply.
There is some misunderstanding, i know Amiga emulation is way harder than console one. What i want to say is why not make WinUae snappy like the console emulators, if possible of course. (I know the answer, so feel free to ignore answering this one)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
EDIT: I'll try to add not-so-perfectly-working automatic selection soon.
All i can say is and

While i am at it, can you make f12 more quicker, like instant. (now it use to take between a second and two to show up)?
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Old 14 October 2010, 20:35   #13
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3rd`ed hehehe I even want less pages in winuae
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Old 15 October 2010, 13:46   #14
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The 'F12' window takes ages to pop up when output res is set to 1920x1200. If I set the display res to lower resolutions, the pop up time gets a lot shorter.
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Old 15 October 2010, 15:38   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
I hate using normal menus in emulators (like in Vice), I want to have all options quickly available without jumping around different menus (and even worse, submenus)
And I make my vote also here. As it is, it's quick and easy to get to any part of the emulator settings.

Menus, well, work, but are clumsy compared to the layout used by WinUAE.
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Old 15 October 2010, 15:43   #16
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Must agree with everyone on this, menus are slow and cumbersum, I like the way WinUAE works, everything is always at hand and never hidden like they are within menus.
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Old 23 October 2010, 12:02   #17
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Personally I'd only find this useful if it could automatically switch back and forward between 2 different screen modes (e.g. resolution/refresh rate) with different display settings (e.g. hires/lores)
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