Would you pay for a new Amiga game?

[Samurai_Crow]

UAE has a JIT compiler and so does Hollywood but the Hollywood applet bytecode can act as a cross-platform library format as well as executable format. Also the license terms of UAE require the source code be included with any derived work. I think Hollywood is better for running new code because it leverages the OS functions of the host platform better.

Was Cannonball written in C? That's why it is hard to optimize. It is written in a low-level language as lazy coding. With low-level language you reinvent the wheel too often. Assembly is even worse when doing cross-platform coding. Using a bytecode can make coding possible to optimize after the fact.

That said, I think GOG.com sells UAE wrapped code for next-to-nothing if that's the route you want to go in.

[Thorham]

Originally Posted by PortuguesePilot

That needs true community spirit, though, and the Amiga community seems to be a little devoid of it. We need to work on improving that first, then we'll be ready to fly. Or do you all think I'm being over-optimistic?

The problem is that the Amiga scene is fragmented. How are people going to work together when some are interested in AGA+68020, while others are interested in next gen? You can't have such mixed interests in the same team. I for one wouldn't make a single concession when developing for AGA+68020/30, and it simply wouldn't be up for debate at all. In fact, I have a problem with sacrificing small amounts of speed on 68020/30 to make code run a little faster on 68060s

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by PortuguesePilot

I would pay for an Amiga game, sure, but it would have to be an AAA tile, with a quality level akin to that seen in the last glorious days of the Amiga, like Lionheart or Chaos Engine

Wouldn't you rather pay $3-5 for a simpler, GOOD QUALITY, indie game where clearly a lot of effort has been put, to encourage the developer to keep working on Amiga games?

If that developer is encouraged enough, who knows, he/she might decide to plunge the time and resources necessary into building your much wanted AAA style game.
But out of the blue, who the fuck is going to dedicate full-time to making an Amiga AAA commercial-grade game? Again, as said a million times before, people who are possibly interested in this platform, are grownups who have a lot of shit on their plate and not 16 year olds living with mom who have a lot of free time, passion and energy to dedicate a whole year or two to wow everyone with their Amiga skills and create a AAA game. Also remember kids back then did that because there was a MARKET for commercial Amiga games, and it could become their career. Such a thing does NOT EXIST nowadays.

You need to understand the reality here. As it is, we're lucky enough to have anyone making games for the platform. There aren't many and sadly at times the quality is just not good. But there are a few gems that deserve all the support we can give. I'm not saying "buy anything that runs on an Amiga" which seems to be the mentality of a lot of people and I disagree with it, but the good stuff, go ahead and cough up the usually little cash for it.
This does not include overpriced releases forced into a box that sell for like 40 euros. I'm talking about a fiver for a digital download, which should be the way every Amiga game available nowadays expecting monetary compensation in return be distributed, with an OPTION to buy physical.


As for collaboration, its's been tried a lot of times. Look at the Rygar thread and its struggle. People just don't want to commit. This is just what I explained. For whatever their reasons, you can't just work in a team as in the olden days. It's not the same, because we're not the same, and working online isn't the same either.

Platform fragmentation is also not helping. There clearly are two (or three) "Amigas" nowadays, and one has to choose which one to develop for.

[viddi]

Well, it´s funny to see that some guys are bashing Backbone again and again.
You´re right that most BB games are crap, but until this day no one delivered a recent Amiga Action Adventure.

I produced two games of its kind (Tales of Gorluth I & II) and they are in German and English, have great storylines, professionally produced boxes and CDs made in Germany and hours of gameplay.

Without BB these games wouldn´t be here, because all coders I asked about joining this project in the past told me that they don´t have the time and will to finish complex projects (Action RPGs).

It was very hard work and you should appreciate that.

[Raislin77it]

Originally Posted by Akira

Wouldn't you rather pay $3-5 for a simpler, GOOD QUALITY, indie game where clearly a lot of effort has been put, to encourage the developer to keep working on Amiga games?

If that developer is encouraged enough, who knows, he/she might decide to plunge the time and resources necessary into building your much wanted AAA style game.
But out of the blue, who the fuck is going to dedicate full-time to making an Amiga AAA commercial-grade game? Again, as said a million times before, people who are possibly interested in this platform, are grownups who have a lot of shit on their plate and not 16 year olds living with mom who have a lot of free time, passion and energy to dedicate a whole year or two to wow everyone with their Amiga skills and create a AAA game. Also remember kids back then did that because there was a MARKET for commercial Amiga games, and it could become their career. Such a thing does NOT EXIST nowadays.

You need to understand the reality here. As it is, we're lucky enough to have anyone making games for the platform. There aren't many and sadly at times the quality is just not good. But there are a few gems that deserve all the support we can give. I'm not saying "buy anything that runs on an Amiga" which seems to be the mentality of a lot of people and I disagree with it, but the good stuff, go ahead and cough up the usually little cash for it.
This does not include overpriced releases forced into a box that sell for like 40 euros. I'm talking about a fiver for a digital download, which should be the way every Amiga game available nowadays expecting monetary compensation in return be distributed, with an OPTION to buy physical.


As for collaboration, its's been tried a lot of times. Look at the Rygar thread and its struggle. People just don't want to commit. This is just what I explained. For whatever their reasons, you can't just work in a team as in the olden days. It's not the same, because we're not the same, and working online isn't the same either.

Platform fragmentation is also not helping. There clearly are two (or three) "Amigas" nowadays, and one has to choose which one to develop for.

i quote every words

[PortuguesePilot]

You all present very good arguments worthy of being addressed individually.

Originally Posted by Thorham

The problem is that the Amiga scene is fragmented. How are people going to work together when some are interested in AGA+68020, while others are interested in next gen? You can't have such mixed interests in the same team. I for one wouldn't make a single concession when developing for AGA+68020/30, and it simply wouldn't be up for debate at all. In fact, I have a problem with sacrificing small amounts of speed on 68020/30 to make code run a little faster on 68060s

The fragmentation of the community is, indeed, an issue. While in other communities this is virtually unheard of (the difference between a Spectrum 48K and a 128K isn't all that big, and the C64 community is virtually absolutely homogeneous), the Amiga community does have a fair share of variation in hardware (not as much as the Atari community, though, that goes from the humble 520ST all the way to the Falcon). Yet, a similar community would be the MSX community, with the MSX1 being a rough equivalent of the 68000/OCS Amigas and the MSX2 being a rough equivalent to the 68020/AGA Amigas (in terms of community comparisons). Smaller but with similar issues is the X68000 community (there are significant differences between a stock X68000 with HumanOS 3.02 and a X68030 with an FPU, a PCM soundcard and SX-Windows).

Yet, those communities thrive, even the much smaller X68000 one. Why shouldn't the Amiga do so as well? As we've seen, fragmentation in itself is not an excuse. Sure, it helps to explain why there's this inertia in the Amiga community, but it's possible to overcome, as the X68000 and (especially) the MSX communities have shown. I get your point, though... the AGA machines can be seen as the benchmark and the starting ground (much like the 128K is in the Spectrum community or the MSX2 is in the MSX community), even though I have a softspot for the A500. I can accept that the 1200 be taken as the minimal requirement. No problem. But yes, that in itself doesn't solve everything. There's still the issue with FPGA and how to take advantage of it. I, myself, have stated elsewhere in these boards that FPGA is the way of the future for the Amiga (regardless of what purists may say, and note that I am more of a purist myself, though I'm not an extremist at that). The Vampire II and other cards of it sort that may come in the future opened a door of possibilities that can and should be explored. But that leaves the classic Amigas behind. And let's face it, there are still less people with Vampires than with them. They are also quite expensive as of yet. And until most Amigas are equipped with one (and once AGA is implemented into the Vampire II core, making it available on ALL Amigas, thus closing that gap), then it isn't yet the great equalizer that we all want it to be. The best way to deal with these discrepancies of today, then, would be two teams: one to focus on classic 680x0 Amigas, and another to focus on FPGA-based ones. Easier said than done, I know, but without resolve, nothing can be achieved. Right?

Originally Posted by Akira

Wouldn't you rather pay $3-5 for a simpler, GOOD QUALITY, indie game where clearly a lot of effort has been put, to encourage the developer to keep working on Amiga games?

Yes. 3 to 5€? Sure. I said so on my original post on this thread. I won't, though, pay more than that for games that clearly aren't up to par. I'm sorry to say it (truly, I am), but most modern Amiga games aren't very good. We load them, play them for a few hours, say "yes, it's OK" and then resort back to the good old classics. I don't know about you, but this happens to me all too frequently. Now if the game was free, all we can do is show appreciation and be thankful for them. Give its creators all the praise and respect they deserve for sharing - GENEROUSLY (a very valued virtue, in my book) - their hard work. BUT when a financial transaction is involved, market laws apply. A product must be of a minimal sort of quality for it to be marketable. If it's not, then people will frown upon the idea of buying it. This applies to games. And, as I said before, having high-quality classics is actually what makes many amigans weary of the modern games - because they compare. And, as we've all agreed, most modern software just isn't in the same league. That's why forking out money (more than 5-7€) for it is not a captivating prospect. It isn't for me and I dare say it isn't for the vast mass of silent amigans that, clearly, don't buy the games, seeing just how few of those games are actually sold.

Originally Posted by Akira

(...) But out of the blue, who the fuck is going to dedicate full-time to making an Amiga AAA commercial-grade game? Again, as said a million times before, people who are possibly interested in this platform, are grownups who have a lot of shit on their plate and not 16 year olds living with mom who have a lot of free time, passion and energy to dedicate a whole year or two to wow everyone with their Amiga skills and create a AAA game. Also remember kids back then did that because there was a MARKET for commercial Amiga games, and it could become their career. Such a thing does NOT EXIST nowadays.

All fair arguments. But this is where the community spirit I spoke of before must be mustered. If the community was more enthusiastic and dynamic (and more willing to cooperate), then it would generate the needed momentum to leave this seemingly indefinite inertia that has plagued the Amiga community since 1995. Doing things just for the sheer pleasure of doing them. That's what fuels all the other communities I spoke of. If everyone else can, why shouldn't we? Are we any less than any of them? Even with all the aforementioned hindrances, if we really want to and we really get our heads into it, we'll surely do it. And in the beginning, it's harder 'cos firstly we have to get the wheel in motion, but once it is in motion, further development gets easier and faster (just look at what CEZ team did with the Spectrum). I do, however, get the feeling that many people in the Amiga community just don't want to run the extra mile. They're really not into it. They seem content (or resigned) with the status quo and aren't really willing to attempt a revival. As I've said before: what a pity.

Originally Posted by viddi

Well, it´s funny to see that some guys are bashing Backbone again and again.
You´re right that most BB games are crap, but until this day no one delivered a recent Amiga Action Adventure.

I produced two games of its kind (Tales of Gorluth I & II) and they are in German and English, have great storylines, professionally produced boxes and CDs made in Germany and hours of gameplay.

Without BB these games wouldn´t be here, because all coders I asked about joining this project in the past told me that they don´t have the time and will to finish complex projects (Action RPGs).

It was very hard work and you should appreciate that.

All efforts are appreciated. I repeat myself, since I've said it at least three times on my previous comments. BUT the big differentiator here is money. As I said above, once there is a commercial transaction, market rules apply. If you make a game, with nice graphics and good story, with attention to little details but it's slow, derivative and buggy, it will be greatly appreciated if it is generously given for free, but it will be prone to criticism if it is sold. The exact same end-product will be judged differently and classified differently if it was given or sold. That single little detail defines the reception a certain game gets. It's the same principle as the arcades. Remember that the arcade games used to be more fun back in the day than now via MAME? Why? 'Cos you forked the coin. THAT was the prime mobile. You HAD to make your INVESTMENT worthwhile. The same is true for the games that are sold vs games that are given. Given games are universally welcomed and generate great praise and honour to its creators. Sold games, on the other hand, are much more opened to scrutiny and criticism, and its creator may then feel unappreciated or even offended and choose to not make any more games. To avoid that and have people happy with the games they bought, the games have to have enough quality (and, in the Amiga case, that's saying something) for the people who bought them feel that their money was well spent. Hence why I said what I said on all of my comments in this thread. Make a really good Amiga game, make a small demo available for people to try before buying and if the game is really good, people will line up to buy it. It's just like hardware, really. If the Vampire II was crap, no-one would even consider buying it but since it's great, everyone wants one. It's time for the Amiga community to stop praising mediocre games and start having good ones (occasionally even great ones). If we have great hardware, it's time to have great software to come with it, else why would we even need the new hardware? Honestly, I think that we need a kick in the butt to get this community off its ass and see if we start doing something that's really good. All I'm attempting here, in all of my admittedly meagre means, is to deliver that kick in the butt. At least to try and get you all thinking about it...

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by PortuguesePilot

But this is where the community spirit I spoke of before must be mustered. If the community was more enthusiastic and dynamic (and more willing to cooperate), then it would generate the needed momentum to leave this seemingly indefinite inertia that has plagued the Amiga community since 1995. Doing things just for the sheer pleasure of doing them. That's what fuels all the other communities I spoke of. If everyone else can, why shouldn't we?

Well, as I said, for whatever reason, the people interested in this platform are just interested this much.
Also if the community has to be both the creators of content and the intending purchasing audience, here is a big problem. I feel like in places like the C64 scene, there's a core group of enthusiasts interested in making stuff, but a larger core of enthusiasts that are just consumers/collectors, and Amiga does not seem to have this balance.

If every person in the Amiga community would be involved in games making, would they be buying games? I'm not sure.

Are we any less than any of them? Even with all the aforementioned hindrances, if we really want to and we really get our heads into it, we'll surely do it.

And your answer is right there. As I said before it seems that the people interested in this platform just don't want to do what you want to get. It doesn't make this community better or worse. It's just what it is. Different people with different needs, problems, interests and time constraints.

I do, however, get the feeling that many people in the Amiga community just don't want to run the extra mile. They're really not into it.

So yeah you have come to the same conclusion I just explained, and I think this is what needs to be embraced and dealt with.
Unfortunately, or fortunately, there's only one thing YOU can do: is go out and make the game you want for the Amiga. Why don't you do it instead of talking about it? You surely will have a bunch of excuses. So do other people Think of why YOU don't do it and apply that thought to the whole of the community, and this matter needs not be discussed anymore. With that said, you either take it or leave it, and with leave it I mean, you either drop the platform, or be the generator of the change you seem very passionate preaching about. Actions speak louder than words.

[Anakirob]

Originally Posted by Akira

Wouldn't you rather pay $3-5 for a simpler, GOOD QUALITY, indie game where clearly a lot of effort has been put, to encourage the developer to keep working on Amiga games?

I paid a dollar a pop for Tanks Furry disks and I would pay a dollar a pop for a Steam version too. Especially if it had cards and backdrops and all that malarkey, especially since the chances are that Kyot is doing the art and you don't have to look at me to closely to see that I am at least a little fond of his work.

Indeed I am currently discussing things with R3D, nothing is formal but you only have to have a quick glance around to see that R3D and System Of Sound have a mutual friendship,if only in the games developer to games magazine publisher sense.

But I assure you I do not refrain from pointing out what I do not like about Tanks Furry too. I can safely tell you it rates about an eight and that's about .5 above the recommended passing grade compared to what I'd get on Steam. And that's the score for the free-to-play version and those don't tend to rate very well at all with us.

But the boxed CD package gets around 9 which is a large difference purely on the strength of the official manual. It really is the best Amiga manual I have ever seen. There were one or two minor errors, like a few unimportant words which had not been translated to English but these just added to the charm in my opinion. And it does clear up a lot of things, I wish I had read it before the first time I played as it is actually helpful too.

I compare the $15 AUD I paid to a shareware registration fee.

[PortuguesePilot]

Originally Posted by Akira

Why don't you do it instead of talking about it? You surely will have a bunch of excuses. So do other people Think of why YOU don't do it and apply that thought to the whole of the community, and this matter needs not be discussed anymore. With that said, you either take it or leave it, and with leave it I mean, you either drop the platform, or be the generator of the change you seem very passionate preaching about. Actions speak louder than words.

This is part of the problem, I think. This attitude right here. This is a very amigan attitude, unfortunately. I haven't seen it in any other. Well, maybe that's not true. There's always these "deliver or STFU" users everywhere, but only in the Amiga community are they the bulk of people. Why?? I really don't understand it.

To answer your question: I don't do it because I CAN'T do it. Literally. I have virtually no coding skills (learned C and Pascal 30 years ago), can't draw pixels to save my life and I can't make music. I'm a clinician, not an engineer. I do have what you all seem to lack, though, which is passion. There's a portuguese saying that goes something like: "Deus dá as nozes a quem não tem dentes para as roer" (God gives the walnuts to those who don't have any teeth to chew them). This seems to be the case. Some of the best artists/coders/musicians in this site lack the passion/will/resolve to actually do something with their skills/talents. I may have the passion and the will, but lack the skill/talent. Unfortunate, isn't it? Yet, here I am, trying to kickstart something (your butts, specifically) in order to see if I can at least "contaminate" some of you with my passion. But some of the best artists/coders/musicians of the Amiga community usually utter from high in their white horse, "deliver or STFU" or phrases like "this matter needs not be discussed anymore". Why? Why shouldn't it be discussed anymore? This sort of stance that permeates the Amiga community is what is actually detrimental to any entrepreneurial ideas. Am I being too idealistic? Perhaps. But we do need ideas to make things happen. You can't just "deliver or STFU" or state that "action speak louder than words" if you have no idea behind it in the first place. And that's what I'm daring to do here: have an idea. Better yet: an ideal. I would want to see my favoured platform thrive and I'm willing to discern strategies and ways of doing it. Is that such a foul crime?

BTW: pardon the off-topic vent.

Originally Posted by Anakirob

I paid a dollar a pop for Tanks Furry disks and I would pay a dollar a pop for a Steam version too. Especially if it had cards and backdrops and all that malarkey, especially since the chances are that Kyot is doing the art and you don't have to look at me to closely to see that I am at least a little fond of his work. (...)

Tanks Furry is a rather good game, hence an exception to the rule. Tanks Furry is well worth what was asked for it. And when the commercial viability was exhausted, it was generously given to the community. High praise.

[Amiga1992]

Hey dude, I didn't mean to offend you, I'm afraid you took the comment in the wrong way. I didn't mean to say you were committing a crime, I was just trying to give you an answer for your pondering. Let me try again.

What I meant is that if one wants something to change, the best course of action is to do it themselves. Can't code? Learn. Can't draw pixels? Learn. Can't make music? at least try.
You shouldn't depend on others to change, otherwise you spend your life waiting and letting others have control over it, instead of controlling it yourself. And if you start the change, it will possibly and probably inspire others to follow through.
This is what I mean with "actions speak louder than words". These endless talks in EAB about "why is this or that not made on Amiga", for example, inspire me not in the least bit, but a release like the upcoming Powerglove or Reshoot R do inspire me and I am sure others too.

You said you seemed to find the current scene lacking the will to go the extra mile, yet I see you have this "problem" too, otherwise, you wouldn't be telling me this. You would be going that extra mile and trying to learn a new skill to help make these games you, we, want. But why don't you? you probably have a bunch of very good reasons that i am not intending to discuss. They are your reasons and they are valid.

Again, I am not attacking or criticizing you, I am trying to make you see, that perhaps, the way you feel and your reasons, are the same as those for other people, and this is exactly why we see (or not) the current output of Amiga games. To understand WHY we are in the current state, we need only to look at a mirror.

With "this matter needs not be discussed anymore" I am not vetting further discussion of it, but I am meaning that we don't really need to ponder much at why things are the way they are, we well know why, yet we somehow seem to be trying to point fingers at something else. There shouldn't be a discussion because the problem is clear and the reasons well spoken of and obvious. Talking about how to change that is a different thing, and that can and should start with oneself.


Saying you can't do something is very limiting to yourself. Perhaps you can't now. But that doesn't mean you can't in the future if you put the effort. I've seen many people do it. I have learned many new things myself along the way. Don't cut yourself short and do anything you want, everybody can.

[Anakirob]

Originally Posted by Akira

Hey dude, I didn't mean to offend you, I'm afraid you took the comment in the wrong way. I didn't mean to say you were committing a crime, I was just trying to give you an answer for your pondering. Let me try again.

What I meant is that if one wants something to change, the best course of action is to do it themselves. Can't code? Learn. Can't draw pixels? Learn. Can't make music? at least try.
You shouldn't depend on others to change, otherwise you spend your life waiting and letting others have control over it, instead of controlling it yourself. And if you start the change, it will possibly and probably inspire others to follow through.

Yes I agree 100%, now excuse me but I must now go and follow this advice.

[PortuguesePilot]

Originally Posted by Akira

Hey dude, I didn't mean to offend you, I'm afraid you took the comment in the wrong way. I didn't mean to say you were committing a crime, I was just trying to give you an answer for your pondering. Let me try again.

What I meant is that if one wants something to change, the best course of action is to do it themselves. Can't code? Learn. Can't draw pixels? Learn. Can't make music? at least try.
You shouldn't depend on others to change, otherwise you spend your life waiting and letting others have control over it, instead of controlling it yourself. And if you start the change, it will possibly and probably inspire others to follow through.

I wasn't offended. Sorry if that notion came out of my text. I was just seeing a pattern that I have identified long ago on the Amiga community that doesn't seem to exist (or is not as prevalent) on other communities. Remember when I said "doing things for the sheer please of doing them"? That's something that permeates the other communities (especially the Spectrum's. Maybe I'm too influenced by it. Maybe they're just THAT good that everything else pales in comparison). In those communities, the artists/coders/musicians make the games because they have genuine pleasure in doing them. They have a vision (the idea I spoke of), they run with it, do what has to be done and - when it's all done - give it to the community. 95% of the time for free. This is beautiful, don't you think? I have genuine pleasure in witnessing it. I would like to see the same in the Amiga community. But, yes, you're right. We shouldn't depend on other to do things that WE want or need. I should learn (I'm 40 and all-thumbs, working on yet another PhD thesis, but still... it's never too late), but what I was attempting to do was to awaken those who already know. Those who don't have to learn anymore because they already have the knowledge/skill to do it and urge them to apply those skills into something fruitful. What the Amiga community now seems is a collection of some talented individuals that do nothing with their talents other than commenting on a forum. Do you know where the word "talent" originates from? Yes, that passage from the bible (Matthew 25:14). I'm not a religious person, but the moral of that story fits this like a glove. Some of the very talented individuals here are just "burying their talent". All I was attempting was to stir their pride into applying their talent into something everyone (even themselves) would appreciate.

Sometimes I have the feeling that people think that I'm asking too much. That it stems from a sort of ignorance about how the community really works. But I dare say the opposite. I think that by being a part of other communities, I'm more suited to see the points of convergence and divergence and more suited to see how the small hindrances could be overcome (not because I'm magic or smarter, but simply because I've seen them be overcome elsewhere). It's hard, though, to try and mess with the long-instituted status quo.

[nobody]

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by PortuguesePilot

In those communities, the artists/coders/musicians make the games because they have genuine pleasure in doing them.

I still think you are a bit misguided. Everyone doing here what they do also do it for pleasure and passion. And those who don't do anything, even if they have skills to do so, also have good reasons not to. We can't question people and why they do or do not certain things. I don't think people need to be hit with a cattle-prod into doing things. The only way things will come out in the best possible way is if people want to make them. You can't force them.

Since you are talking about passion and will, I am sure 99% of the people will not have any of that if they feel forced to do something. So preaching is not really helpful in that way, and again this is what I mean with "inspire by actions rather than words".

By the way, just having a skill doesn't mean you have to use it in a certain way or at all, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. Perhaps for people who hang out here and have certain skills, the Amiga is JUST NOT THAT IMPORTANT. Is that a shocker? I don't think so. We all grew up and hopefully diversified our interests and that just makes us richer people. And if you still want to make things for the Amiga, that's great. but if not, I understand, because I know I have my own reasons why I don't, or why I do.

This is what I find from other scenes that you want to compare to: I feel like in them, most of the people involved have those platforms as their sole interest as a hobby in life. While I see the Amiga community as a more diverse one. The Amiga is a platform that from the very beginning nurtured CREATIVITY, and a lot of people that were into it came out graphicians, musicians, creators of many kinds, and perhaps nowadays have a myriad of options where to express their creativity, while other platforms, more restrictive in regards of how much "real world application" their computer activities had, are more limited to and by the platform itself. So a lot of Amiga users have varied hobbies they probably got started with an Amiga but trascended the platform and there's no real need to actually go back to it in any way, at least not exclusively.

[nobody]

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by nobody

.

LOL and you were complaining about trolling in another thread, nobody

[nobody]

I thought it was time to relax a bit haha

[Amiga1992]

I did not get that last joke anyway, I don't write drivel like absolute shit :P

[nobody]

It's generally for long text

[PortuguesePilot]

Originally Posted by Akira

I still think you are a bit misguided. Everyone doing here what they do also do it for pleasure and passion. And those who don't do anything, even if they have skills to do so, also have good reasons not to. We can't question people and why they do or do not certain things. I don't think people need to be hit with a cattle-prod into doing things. The only way things will come out in the best possible way is if people want to make them. You can't force them.

Not force them. I can't do that even if I wanted to (and I don't). "Inspire them" is the right phrase. That's what I was attempting. I've seen it done elsewhere, that's why I know it's possible. If we have the means, why not apply them? Is this sort of pro-action and positive "can do" thinking a sort of "misguidedness" as you call it? Why?

Originally Posted by Akira

This is what I find from other scenes that you want to compare to: I feel like in them, most of the people involved have those platforms as their sole interest as a hobby in life. While I see the Amiga community as a more diverse one. The Amiga is a platform that from the very beginning nurtured CREATIVITY, and a lot of people that were into it came out graphicians, musicians, creators of many kinds, and perhaps nowadays have a myriad of options where to express their creativity, while other platforms, more restrictive in regards of how much "real world application" their computer activities had, are more limited to and by the platform itself. So a lot of Amiga users have varied hobbies they probably got started with an Amiga but trascended the platform and there's no real need to actually go back to it in any way, at least not exclusively.

It doesn't have to be exclusively. I understand all of your points but still see no reason for the re-emergence of the Amiga productivity not to happen. I feel that I'm being misunderstood. Maybe I'm not expressing myself as well as I should... Maybe I should reflect more before actually speaking out. I have thought this all out before, but my way of putting it forward doesn't seem to be reaching the right minds (or, at least, the right mindsets). That's probably my fault. I'll refrain from doing it any further until I find a better way to reach my fellow amigans the right way.