Best flicker fix for A500+ > 1084S Monitor

Starglider 2 · 16 May 2016, 23:38

Hi, what's the best way to reduce flicker when using Laced NTSC mode from the A500-Plus on the Commodore 1084S monitor via the RGB cable?

A software fix perhaps?
Or even a program that just displays every other line to give faux double height screen?

idrougge · 17 May 2016, 00:22

Turn down the brightness/contrast.

Starglider 2 · 17 May 2016, 00:29

#NotSureIfSerious

idrougge · 17 May 2016, 01:03

Serious.

Starglider 2 · 17 May 2016, 01:13

Whilst I think I see what you mean, it doesn't make much difference until the screen is unreadable (in the same way that turning the screen off helps the flicker.)

Not the solution I'm looking for.

r.cade · 17 May 2016, 02:44

There is no way other than getting a scan doubler and a VGA-style monitor. There used to be such as thing as high-persistence monitors that reduced the flicker, but they are really rare.

Starglider 2 · 17 May 2016, 02:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by r.cade

There is no way other than getting a scan doubler and a VGA-style monitor.

Does that mean there's no way with the 1084S?

ptyerman · 17 May 2016, 06:28

No there isn't. The 1084S is a RGB monitor, not Interlace or VGA.

mark_k · 17 May 2016, 13:37

You can adjust your Workbench colour palette to minimise flicker. E.g. orange text on black background will flicker less than white text.

If you're using Kickstart 3.1, another option would be to experiment with EURO36 screen modes. Those are 15kHz like NTSC & PAL, but about 72Hz refresh rate so interlaced modes flicker less than NTSC. Your 1084 probably won't be able to give a stable picture, but you could adjust its vertical hold control and see if that helps.

You could also try adjusting the EURO36 monitor tooltypes to add scanlines to bring the vertical refresh rate down a little.

There's also a program (60HzEmulator maybe???) which allows you to gradually adjust the vertical refresh rate by pressing a key combination. You could gradually increase the rate to see what the maximum your 1084 can handle is. Maybe it could go up to about 65Hz without adjustment?

Disclaimer: don't blame me if that damages your monitor!

Jope · 17 May 2016, 21:06

It's best to not torment the 1084 with horizontal rates over 15kHz. There have been some tweaked drivers for that, but it's not really worth the hassle.

mark_k · 17 May 2016, 21:52

Agreed, but I wasn't suggesting using a non-15kHz horizontal rate. Just varying (decreasing) the number of scanlines to increase the vertical refresh rate.

Starglider 2 · 17 May 2016, 22:07

Gotcha.

For the Euro36 idea, how do I activate it? I thought I just copied Euro36 from Storage>Monitors to Devs>Monitors, but I can't see where to select it.

mark_k · 17 May 2016, 22:09

Open ScreenMode preferences and you should be able to select a Euro36 mode for Workbench there.

Starglider 2 · 17 May 2016, 22:12

That's what I thought but I'm not seeing any new options, just the same NTSC and PAL modes as before. I just move Euro36 to Devs>Monitors, correct?

mark_k · 17 May 2016, 22:15

Moving the Euro36 driver there should be enough. Or just double-click the Euro36 icon from Workbench. Do you definitely have an ECS Denise in your machine?

See these packages on Aminet:

http://aminet.net/package/docs/hard/NT70
http://aminet.net/package/util/wb/Amero36
http://aminet.net/package/util/wb/amero36upd
http://aminet.net/package/driver/moni/Pal-57Hz

Starglider 2 · 17 May 2016, 22:19

I don't think I said that I have an ECS Denise. AFAIK I do not have that.

gazj82 · 17 May 2016, 22:25

I was going to suggest MagicTV, but it looks like it is AGA only.

eXeler0 · 17 May 2016, 22:51

Remember how much ppl used to pay to get rid of flickering 20 years ago? ;-)

http://www.exretro.com/galleries/com...oubler2_01.jpg

Is it important that it's done on a 1084 or are you open to alternative solutions?

Starglider 2 · 17 May 2016, 22:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by eXeler0

Remember how much ppl used to pay to get rid of flickering 20 years ago? ;-)

http://www.exretro.com/galleries/com...oubler2_01.jpg

Is it important that it's done on a 1084 or are you open to alternative solutions?

Thanks but it has to be 1084S as I need its green mode for the Apple //e and a number of other reasons.

Cheers!

ptyerman · 17 May 2016, 23:19

Your best bet then with the 1084S is just stick with native screen modes, and if your Denise isn't ECS that's your only choice anyway, without blowing up the 1084.

16 May 2016, 23:38	#1
Starglider 2 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: California Posts: 1,146	Best flicker fix for A500+ > 1084S Monitor Hi, what's the best way to reduce flicker when using Laced NTSC mode from the A500-Plus on the Commodore 1084S monitor via the RGB cable? A software fix perhaps? Or even a program that just displays every other line to give faux double height screen? Last edited by Starglider 2; 16 May 2016 at 23:49.

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17 May 2016, 00:22	#2
idrougge Registered User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Stockholm Posts: 4,338	Turn down the brightness/contrast.

17 May 2016, 00:29	#3
Starglider 2 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: California Posts: 1,146	#NotSureIfSerious

17 May 2016, 01:03	#4
idrougge Registered User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Stockholm Posts: 4,338	Serious.

17 May 2016, 01:13	#5
Starglider 2 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: California Posts: 1,146	Whilst I think I see what you mean, it doesn't make much difference until the screen is unreadable (in the same way that turning the screen off helps the flicker.) Not the solution I'm looking for.

17 May 2016, 02:44	#6
r.cade Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Augusta, Georgia, USA Posts: 550	There is no way other than getting a scan doubler and a VGA-style monitor. There used to be such as thing as high-persistence monitors that reduced the flicker, but they are really rare.

17 May 2016, 06:28	#8
ptyerman Registered User Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Worksop/UK Age: 59 Posts: 1,328	No there isn't. The 1084S is a RGB monitor, not Interlace or VGA.

17 May 2016, 13:37	#9
mark_k Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Posts: 3,343	You can adjust your Workbench colour palette to minimise flicker. E.g. orange text on black background will flicker less than white text. If you're using Kickstart 3.1, another option would be to experiment with EURO36 screen modes. Those are 15kHz like NTSC & PAL, but about 72Hz refresh rate so interlaced modes flicker less than NTSC. Your 1084 probably won't be able to give a stable picture, but you could adjust its vertical hold control and see if that helps. You could also try adjusting the EURO36 monitor tooltypes to add scanlines to bring the vertical refresh rate down a little. There's also a program (60HzEmulator maybe???) which allows you to gradually adjust the vertical refresh rate by pressing a key combination. You could gradually increase the rate to see what the maximum your 1084 can handle is. Maybe it could go up to about 65Hz without adjustment? Disclaimer: don't blame me if that damages your monitor!

17 May 2016, 21:06	#10
Jope - Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Helsinki / Finland Age: 43 Posts: 9,864	It's best to not torment the 1084 with horizontal rates over 15kHz. There have been some tweaked drivers for that, but it's not really worth the hassle.

17 May 2016, 21:52	#11
mark_k Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Posts: 3,343	Agreed, but I wasn't suggesting using a non-15kHz horizontal rate. Just varying (decreasing) the number of scanlines to increase the vertical refresh rate.

17 May 2016, 22:07	#12
Starglider 2 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: California Posts: 1,146	Gotcha. For the Euro36 idea, how do I activate it? I thought I just copied Euro36 from Storage>Monitors to Devs>Monitors, but I can't see where to select it.

17 May 2016, 22:09	#13
mark_k Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Posts: 3,343	Open ScreenMode preferences and you should be able to select a Euro36 mode for Workbench there.

17 May 2016, 22:12	#14
Starglider 2 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: California Posts: 1,146	That's what I thought but I'm not seeing any new options, just the same NTSC and PAL modes as before. I just move Euro36 to Devs>Monitors, correct?

17 May 2016, 22:15	#15
mark_k Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Posts: 3,343	Moving the Euro36 driver there should be enough. Or just double-click the Euro36 icon from Workbench. Do you definitely have an ECS Denise in your machine? See these packages on Aminet: http://aminet.net/package/docs/hard/NT70 http://aminet.net/package/util/wb/Amero36 http://aminet.net/package/util/wb/amero36upd http://aminet.net/package/driver/moni/Pal-57Hz

17 May 2016, 22:19	#16
Starglider 2 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: California Posts: 1,146	I don't think I said that I have an ECS Denise. AFAIK I do not have that.

17 May 2016, 22:25	#17
gazj82 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Cambs / UK Posts: 356	I was going to suggest MagicTV, but it looks like it is AGA only.

17 May 2016, 22:51	#18
eXeler0 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Sweden Age: 50 Posts: 2,953	Remember how much ppl used to pay to get rid of flickering 20 years ago? ;-) http://www.exretro.com/galleries/com...oubler2_01.jpg Is it important that it's done on a 1084 or are you open to alternative solutions?

17 May 2016, 23:19	#20
ptyerman Registered User Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Worksop/UK Age: 59 Posts: 1,328	Your best bet then with the 1084S is just stick with native screen modes, and if your Denise isn't ECS that's your only choice anyway, without blowing up the 1084.

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