Why is HAM so underrated?

Foebane · 30 November 2017, 21:26

I personally think it's awesome! Have Agnus display all 4096 colours with no CPU overheads, and with reasonable quality still images as well! It even looks better interlaced!

What I find baffling is how people say they hate HAM because it can't be used for games. Well, you have 32 out of 4096 colours on screen already, isn't that enough for you? No other platform has so many colours on screen at once, and here you have this amount with sprites and a copper, too! (imagine this conversation in 1985 and you'll see what I mean). It's still progress, but don't demand too much, it's not possible!

Besides, I think a HAM game is perfectly possible on Amiga. At best, you'd have to reduce the horizontal resolution to one/third to accommodate the RGB components of each pixel, and best to reduce the vertical resolution to one/third as well, just to make for square pixels. Then you could achieve all manner of cool results, with animation, but it would just look really lo-res and chunky. Heck, it would be better off if you tried it in HAM8 hi-res! Oh wait, some AGA demos do that already and they look frickin' awesome! "Tint" by The Black Lotus for a classic example that runs on an expanded A1200!

So don't say games aren't possible in HAM! This mode needs more love!

s2325 · 30 November 2017, 21:32

There was thread about HAM used in games, like Journey To The Center Of The Earth.

lilalurl · 30 November 2017, 21:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by s2325

There was thread about HAM used in games, like Journey To The Center Of The Earth.

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=70527
older:
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=5973

Galahad/FLT · 30 November 2017, 22:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foebane

I personally think it's awesome! Have Agnus display all 4096 colours with no CPU overheads, and with reasonable quality still images as well! It even looks better interlaced!

What I find baffling is how people say they hate HAM because it can't be used for games. Well, you have 32 out of 4096 colours on screen already, isn't that enough for you? No other platform has so many colours on screen at once, and here you have this amount with sprites and a copper, too! (imagine this conversation in 1985 and you'll see what I mean). It's still progress, but don't demand too much, it's not possible!

Besides, I think a HAM game is perfectly possible on Amiga. At best, you'd have to reduce the horizontal resolution to one/third to accommodate the RGB components of each pixel, and best to reduce the vertical resolution to one/third as well, just to make for square pixels. Then you could achieve all manner of cool results, with animation, but it would just look really lo-res and chunky. Heck, it would be better off if you tried it in HAM8 hi-res! Oh wait, some AGA demos do that already and they look frickin' awesome! "Tint" by The Black Lotus for a classic example that runs on an expanded A1200!

So don't say games aren't possible in HAM! This mode needs more love!

HAM mode is fine for static images, not so great for a fast action game, hence why all the big HAM mode announcements like Dynamite Debugger were quietly shelved when they realised that HAM mode had its limitations.

Also, 512k Amigas were the norm for quite a while, HAM images are quite large in size, around 76K for one HAM mode screen, which is precious memory on a 512k Amiga.

Tsak · 30 November 2017, 22:35

Quote:

There was thread about HAM used in games, like Journey To The Center Of The Earth.

Or Time Gal!!!

http://pixelglass.org/TimeGal

FMV of this quality for OCS? Hell yeah! Kinda makes you wish Dragon's lair and Space Ace were made that way back in the days... But yes, only with cd and extra memory.

Foebane · 01 December 2017, 00:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tsak

Or Time Gal!!!

http://pixelglass.org/TimeGal

FMV of this quality for OCS? Hell yeah! Kinda makes you wish Dragon's lair and Space Ace were made that way back in the days... But yes, only with cd and extra memory.

I'd heard of Time Gal from an AVGN video for the Mega CD, had no idea it had been converted to Amiga!

Foebane · 01 December 2017, 00:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

HAM mode is fine for static images

This says otherwise: [ Show youtube player ]

Look around, there are plenty of Amiga HAM demos.

DamienD · 01 December 2017, 00:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foebane

I'd heard of Time Gal from an AVGN video for the Mega CD, had no idea it had been converted to Amiga!

Have you been living under a rock or something? Time Gal - LaserDisc Anime gets a special Amiga release by ReImagine Games!

Foebane · 01 December 2017, 00:44

DamienD, I honestly did not know about these games until recently, let alone this one! I'm pleased to see at least one 80s Anime laserdisc game for Amiga, in full HAM glory!

Galahad/FLT · 01 December 2017, 01:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foebane

This says otherwise: [ Show youtube player ]

Look around, there are plenty of Amiga HAM demos.

Thats nice.

but you're not really comparing HAM mode on AGA Amigas when I clearly referenced A500's with 512k of ram are you?

Foebane · 01 December 2017, 06:06

It shows what the hardware is capable of, given enough resources.

Even your modest spec allows games like Pioneer Plague, which is astounding in itself.

britelite · 01 December 2017, 08:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foebane

It shows what the hardware is capable of, given enough resources.

Yeah, it's capable of a 160x100ish resolution without crawling to a halt...

britelite · 01 December 2017, 08:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foebane

So don't say games aren't possible in HAM! This mode needs more love!

If you want more HAM-games then start making HAM-games.

NorthWay · 01 December 2017, 12:09

I always thought you could do a very nice pinball game in HAM. If most moving parts were hw sprite outlined you could hide the 3-pixels delta needed to get to the pixel value to the right of the sprite.

AmigaBill · 02 December 2017, 00:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foebane

I'd heard of Time Gal from an AVGN video for the Mega CD, had no idea it had been converted to Amiga!

Earock was nice enough to come on my stream and talk about his projects including TimeGal if you are interested in learning more about it. The TimeGal part is at 51:35 if you want to skip to it. https://www.twitch.tv/videos/205040344

meynaf · 02 December 2017, 12:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by NorthWay

I always thought you could do a very nice pinball game in HAM. If most moving parts were hw sprite outlined you could hide the 3-pixels delta needed to get to the pixel value to the right of the sprite.

Sprites are displayed on top of HAM screens without affecting HAM colors.
This means you don't even have to care about the right of the sprite.

30 November 2017, 21:26	#1
Foebane Banned Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Cardiff, UK Age: 51 Posts: 2,871	Why is HAM so underrated? I personally think it's awesome! Have Agnus display all 4096 colours with no CPU overheads, and with reasonable quality still images as well! It even looks better interlaced! What I find baffling is how people say they hate HAM because it can't be used for games. Well, you have 32 out of 4096 colours on screen already, isn't that enough for you? No other platform has so many colours on screen at once, and here you have this amount with sprites and a copper, too! (imagine this conversation in 1985 and you'll see what I mean). It's still progress, but don't demand too much, it's not possible! Besides, I think a HAM game is perfectly possible on Amiga. At best, you'd have to reduce the horizontal resolution to one/third to accommodate the RGB components of each pixel, and best to reduce the vertical resolution to one/third as well, just to make for square pixels. Then you could achieve all manner of cool results, with animation, but it would just look really lo-res and chunky. Heck, it would be better off if you tried it in HAM8 hi-res! Oh wait, some AGA demos do that already and they look frickin' awesome! "Tint" by The Black Lotus for a classic example that runs on an expanded A1200! So don't say games aren't possible in HAM! This mode needs more love!

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30 November 2017, 21:32	#2
s2325 Zone Friend Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Gargore Age: 43 Posts: 17,789	There was thread about HAM used in games, like Journey To The Center Of The Earth.

01 December 2017, 00:44	#9
Foebane Banned Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Cardiff, UK Age: 51 Posts: 2,871	DamienD, I honestly did not know about these games until recently, let alone this one! I'm pleased to see at least one 80s Anime laserdisc game for Amiga, in full HAM glory!

01 December 2017, 06:06	#11
Foebane Banned Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Cardiff, UK Age: 51 Posts: 2,871	It shows what the hardware is capable of, given enough resources. Even your modest spec allows games like Pioneer Plague, which is astounding in itself.

01 December 2017, 12:09	#14
NorthWay Registered User Join Date: May 2013 Location: Grimstad / Norway Posts: 839	I always thought you could do a very nice pinball game in HAM. If most moving parts were hw sprite outlined you could hide the 3-pixels delta needed to get to the pixel value to the right of the sprite.

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