English Amiga Board


Go Back   English Amiga Board > Main > Amiga scene

 
 
Thread Tools
Old 22 May 2018, 21:32   #1
gunstarrhero
Registered User

 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: North America
Posts: 12
just an idea for winuae/fs/other developers

when are you gonna take out the emulation layer
do you think youll be removing the emulation layer of the 68k from win-uae/fs-uae and use actual hardware instructions to point out on the board so we can use a raspberry pi with linux/winuae on it in place of the operating system on the native hardware? winuae could allow us to run our machines direct to specification, unless you are willing to point out the rest of the hardware as an override or direct fault. if that could be made possible we could just use raspberry pi with a ghz clock and add an fpga, and we have the option of update cores or even powerpc rom installed on it to mimic ppc, this would allow us to get our native machines up onto the 4.1 level and morph level; i know there are ways to do this already, the amiga platform could use something like this to cut back cost and expenses, vampire are too god damn expensive, and raspberry pi is quick to emulate the amiga, just not the fpu level, so why not burn a 68882 on the fpga, or use the fpga as a 68060 mmu and fpu solution? what about conflicts? doesnt winuae support board hardware as native state as the system.... within, well within reason? im surprised no one else even thought of this, if they did, theyve been aweful quiet, what about running kickstart from the pi as well, dont need to, just a thought. its sitting right there for everyone to see, all the options and the direct means to operate the computer, even if emulated some at a higher fruition with native support.
gunstarrhero is offline  
Old 22 May 2018, 21:40   #2
DamienD
Global Moderator

DamienD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Australian in London
Age: 42
Posts: 12,602
Wow, nice first post and spamming it across 2 sections of EAB

Not only is your post hard to read / follow due to no paragraphs etc... are you now going to post this exact same thing in the WinUAE section also?

...who really cares about running stuff on Raspberry PI? That's not the majority of users by any stretch of the imageation
DamienD is offline  
Old 22 May 2018, 21:55   #3
gunstarrhero
Registered User

 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: North America
Posts: 12
raspberry pi

i posted it twice to ensure it would be read by someone.

second off, i never said anything about running from the raspberry pi itself, i stated to run winuae as the operating system on the board from the raspberry pi.

what i left out was the idea of connecting to the board. there is a gpio connector, im sure someone is smart enough to know how to program it to connect to the amiga's clock port.

the idea is to use it instead of a vampire, its an arms processor, its in line and scale with the 68k, why not? its most accurate to the type and nice and affordable means to an upgrade on the amiga.

you can add rapid road or ethernet, how about connecting ethernet to ethernet or usb to usb? as for ppc option, say the gpio connects the fpga, there is going to be a jtag connector there, why not use it to program out to the clock port while the gpio is connected?

We also think paying 1500€ for an old 68060 accelerator plus RTG is pure madness. yeah, madness. except they are still chargin 500$ usd for a dumped processor and rtg. you get both for 30$ usd.
gunstarrhero is offline  
Old 22 May 2018, 22:01   #4
indigolemon
Bit Copying Bard

indigolemon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Kelty, Fife, Scotland
Age: 36
Posts: 528
If it was that simple, as you rightly say, we'd all be doing it right now. There's a reason we're not, and that is it would be horribly complicated and well beyond the scope of a hobby project.
indigolemon is offline  
Old 22 May 2018, 22:07   #5
gunstarrhero
Registered User

 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: North America
Posts: 12
its is complicated, not saying it was simple. you did. im just saying that the options are there. would we? we'd be doing that right now? then why hasnt anyone said anything about it? because no one even thought of it.

it was just a suggestion. take it as it is and attempt to look past your close minded worlds and see the possibility sitting right infront of your faces.

most ppl are seeing it as it is only instead of seeing it for what it is. straight. it cant do anything else. it can, it can be the software layer to the amiga. if they could take the render out of you winuae and use it in fs, then why not start thinking about removing emulation layer for the 68k to start and see if the machine accepts?

Last edited by gunstarrhero; 22 May 2018 at 22:19.
gunstarrhero is offline  
Old 22 May 2018, 22:45   #6
Gorf
Registered User

 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Munich/Bavaria
Posts: 549
Quote:
Originally Posted by DamienD View Post
...who really cares about running stuff on Raspberry PI?

well, I certainly do care about UEA on the RasPi...

Quote:
Not only is your post hard to read / follow
that is certainly true ... I guess he maybe means something like a bare metal-version of UAE?
Gorf is offline  
Old 22 May 2018, 22:45   #7
Akira
Registered User

Akira's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: New York
Posts: 19,265
Quote:
Originally Posted by gunstarrhero View Post
i stated to run winuae as the operating system on the board from the raspberry pi.
[...]
what i left out was the idea of connecting to the board. there is a gpio connector, im sure someone is smart enough to know how to program it to connect to the amiga's clock port.

the idea is to use it instead of a vampire, its an arms processor, its in line and scale with the 68k, why not? its most accurate to the type and nice and affordable means to an upgrade on the amiga.

you can add rapid road or ethernet, how about connecting ethernet to ethernet or usb to usb? as for ppc option, say the gpio connects the fpga, there is going to be a jtag connector there, why not use it to program out to the clock port while the gpio is connected?

Akira is offline  
Old 22 May 2018, 22:47   #8
indigolemon
Bit Copying Bard

indigolemon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Kelty, Fife, Scotland
Age: 36
Posts: 528
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorf View Post
I guess he maybe means something like a bare metal-version of UAE?
I thought that, then there was banter about clockports and co-processors. I'm probably just too closed minded to see it though.
indigolemon is offline  
Old 22 May 2018, 22:55   #9
Gorf
Registered User

 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Munich/Bavaria
Posts: 549
Quote:
when are you gonna take out the emulation layer
do you think youll be ...

Who do you think is "you" - to whom exactly are you referring?
UEA is open source, so you can try yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunstarrhero View Post
the idea is to use it instead of a vampire, its an arms processor, its in line and scale with the 68k, why not?
Why not? because this is not so easy ...
  1. There is already "Amiberry" - a UEA version for the Raspberry Pi, that is evolving and getting better every year.
  2. It is not very clear what you are suggesting exactly: ARM instead of 68K? than you would need a ARM version of AmigaOS ... it exist: AROS. But than you don't need any UEA at all
  3. Have a look at my suggestions in this thread about using a FPGA+CPU combination

Last edited by Gorf; 22 May 2018 at 23:02.
Gorf is offline  
Old 22 May 2018, 23:32   #10
gunstarrhero
Registered User

 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: North America
Posts: 12
magnifying glass

its not too hard to follow, reading must be difficult you
lines are too close shirly, fetch me my magnifying glass
gunstarrhero is offline  
Old 22 May 2018, 23:37   #11
DamienD
Global Moderator

DamienD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Australian in London
Age: 42
Posts: 12,602
@gunstarrhero; first and final warning... one more post from you offending members with crap like we are narrow minded / can't read / blah, blah, blah and your EAB days are well and truly over

Is that clear enough for you?
DamienD is offline  
Old 22 May 2018, 23:42   #12
gunstarrhero
Registered User

 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: North America
Posts: 12
aros isnt amiga os, its a front end that mimics amiga os.
and running 68k cisc code over risc isnt at all complicated

and amiberry is emulation, its all emulation.

i stated just remove the 68k emulation level.

and if amiberry is evolving the way you say it is, then everything ive stated fits along with what everyone wants. so why not do it? if they can build an arms compiled version of uae, then why not just remove the emulation level and run the computer from it?

like i said. most ppl are seeing this straight, it cant be done. it can be, theres the setup, its sitting right there. use it. think out side of the box instead of thinking directly ontop of the board you are working on.

the other point is: what ive stated does, clearly state that: run an amiga computer with with raaspberry pi "piggy backed" "boated" on top of it. the pi runs the operating system "uae" and removes the emulation layer of the 68k, and directly confers with the mainboard. now you receive the clock of the pi, and the memory, although i was thinking more or less "picasso" level 24 bit output display with resolution and with a fpga, ppc.

the point also was just to make a suggestion.
if i were capable of building uae over, i would have
this isnt for me, this isnt a hey guys, do this! its just a suggestion.
gunstarrhero is offline  
Old 22 May 2018, 23:43   #13
gunstarrhero
Registered User

 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: North America
Posts: 12
heres one for you, im not offending anyone.

infact im offended. why jump down my throat over this?

a simple suggestion.
gunstarrhero is offline  
Old 22 May 2018, 23:45   #14
DamienD
Global Moderator

DamienD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Australian in London
Age: 42
Posts: 12,602
Is it not obvious to you? It's you attitude that stinks and you've managed to offend quite a few members within hours of your first post. Well done!!!

Anyway, last thing I say on the matter.
DamienD is offline  
Old 22 May 2018, 23:49   #15
gunstarrhero
Registered User

 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: North America
Posts: 12
how so? from explaining myself?
i was offended from the get go, hence the need to defend myself.

second.
its not like i told anyone to go f-themselves or anything.
ive noticed that when anyone has any ideas, or states anything in the regard "i was thinking" ppl have this tendency to jump down that persons throat.

otherwise: "oh, jolly good show" "smashing idea" "have at you"
gunstarrhero is offline  
Old 23 May 2018, 00:05   #16
Gorf
Registered User

 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Munich/Bavaria
Posts: 549
Quote:
Originally Posted by gunstarrhero View Post
and amiberry is emulation, its all emulation.
i stated just remove the 68k emulation level.
UAE is an emulator - it is probably not a wise decision to remove the emulator-part from an emulator ...

Quote:
so why not do it?
Because no software would would run!
(except maybe AROS for ARM, but for some reason you seem not to like that either...)

Quote:
what ive stated does, clearly state that
so far absolutely nothing you did state here qualifies as "clear".

Quote:
the pi runs the operating system "uae" and removes the emulation layer of the 68k, and directly confers with the mainboard
Again: no software compiled for 68k would run that way - no WB nor DOS no games.
You would need to rewrite and recompile everything for ARM - again: AROS does exactly that for various platform including ARM.

And why do you think you would still need any kind of UEA in this scenario? you removed the emulation-part. So it does nothing...

Quote:
although i was thinking more or less "picasso" level 24 bit output display with resolution and with a fpga, ppc
PPC? FPGA? Where does all that suddenly come from?

That has nothing to do with the Raspberry Pi.
Gorf is offline  
Old 23 May 2018, 00:26   #17
gunstarrhero
Registered User

 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: North America
Posts: 12
yes it does, you can get fpgas for the pi

i never said remove the emulation from the emulation, i said removed the emulated code for the 68k out of the emulator and use a "physical" point to the actual amiga main board. as in "where the emulated portion that says "im a 68k" you point out to the physical processor on the main board instead.

yes it does. you need to pay attention before you start stating "how stupid"
you start stating, oh look at all these options uae brings me and now i can tell my amiga to use a higher resolution, i can run higher bit rate colour native with out the physical hardware on board, oh look POWER PPCS ARE TOO EXPENSIVE, i can emulate one on a fpga or direct from aue on the pie, and now i can install os 4.1 on my "classic"

and further more, i was speaking "use uae to run amiga os" now its full execute 68k from the mainboard not from the pi. now i can install 4.1 on the pi, and use the actual amiga to operate it while the pi does some of the work, displaying out and emulating or running ppc. and even then, if the display system is pointed to from uae to the physical point, you could use the hardware from pi and on the amiga to see and get 24bit colour display in high resolutions wiothout having to pay ridiculous prices for the hardware.
gunstarrhero is offline  
Old 23 May 2018, 00:44   #18
Gorf
Registered User

 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Munich/Bavaria
Posts: 549
Quote:
Originally Posted by gunstarrhero View Post
yes it does, you can get fpgas for the pi
you can also get a FPGA board for you PC - or just one to plug in your USB port...
But there kind of boards won't help you here ...

Quote:
i never said remove the emulation from the emulation, i said removed the emulated code for the 68k out of the emulator
There is no "emulated code for the 68k" - something like that does not exist.

Quote:
and use a "physical" point to the actual amiga main board.
??? that makes no sense.
What are you suggesting? take some superglue and mount your RasPi onto the Amiga Board?
It seems you have no real clue, what you are talking about

Quote:
as in "where the emulated portion that says "im a 68k" you point out to the physical processor on the main board instead.
somehow ... automatically ...
And why not just using the 68k CPU un the Amiga board as it is ... so far your magic RasPi does nothing...

Quote:
oh look at all these options uae brings me and now i can tell my amiga to use a higher resolution, i can run higher bit rate colour native with out the physical hardware on board,
now we are finally getting somewhere!
now at least I somewhat understand, what your idea is all about ....

BUT: your solution would* be much slower than just using Amiberry on the Pi!

*) would, because you can't connect a Pi to your Amiga-board anyways...

Quote:
oh look POWER PPCS ARE TOO EXPENSIVE, i can emulate one on a fpga or direct from aue on the pie, and now i can install os 4.1 on my "classic" ...
just one word: no
Gorf is offline  
Old 23 May 2018, 00:57   #19
Dunny
Registered User

Dunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Scunthorpe/United Kingdom
Posts: 1,088
I think he's saying that we should be able to remove the 68k emulation and in its place talk directly to hardware on the main PC board, with maybe a 68k CPU in FPGA to execute the 68k instructions. Then for stuff like connectivity, video/sound output, use those components on the board directly.

At least, that's what I think he's saying - though his profile hails from North America, I'm pretty certain that English is not his native language. He's certainly not very clear.

The problem as far as I can see is that if you remove the 68k emulation from WinUAE or FS-UAE you don't have a lot left - aside from custom chip emulation which would probably also have to go - you're just left with a framework that talks to a host OS transferring what the emulated Amiga wants to do to the drivers that constitute the video, sound and networking/peripheral devices.

As ideas go (assuming I'm right, which I might not be as he's pretty incomprehensible) it's not a bad one that someone unfamiliar with how emulation works might come up with, but it doesn't stand up to any sort of scrutiny.
Dunny is offline  
Old 23 May 2018, 01:09   #20
Gorf
Registered User

 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Munich/Bavaria
Posts: 549
Quote:
...directly to hardware on the main PC board, with maybe a 68k CPU in FPGA to execute the 68k instructions.
Well he wrote now, that he was talking about an actual Amiga hardware and not a PC-board or 68K on FPGA ...

to combine UAE with some sort of FPGA-accelerated CPU emulation would actually make sense, as I pointed out in the next-gen thread ... but that would not work on a RasPi or real Amiga-hardware or any combination of them.
Gorf is offline  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
idea about WinUAE-based tool vulture support.WinUAE 12 15 February 2013 21:15
WinUAE Idea Van_Dammesque support.WinUAE 10 30 December 2009 15:24
Any Idea what Arabuusimiehet.WinUAE is? ancalimon support.WinUAE 15 12 December 2009 13:35
M$ VC++ Express is now free, WinUAE developers GO! alexh support.WinUAE 8 15 November 2005 14:06
Class idea for WinUAE MethodGit Amiga scene 26 29 August 2001 00:38

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 07:13.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Page generated in 0.09218 seconds with 13 queries