Amiga Clone Natami - Planned For Summer 2008 - Page 6

Madcrow · 16 June 2008, 15:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yotoxionomai

Great!!! Natami for the Summer, Fallout 3 for the Fall, i must start saving up right away!!!

I wish I could afford a Natami... Unfortunately, I have school to pay for, a DSLR that I really need to buy (I'm a photonut and film costs are killing me) and I really ought to replace my A500's dodgy "only works when positioned just right" power supply...

turrican3 · 16 June 2008, 15:29

do you think that it s possible to see os4.0 on natami ?
For me i suppose it's possible but amiga.inc should give a licence and that will be harder.

Yoto · 16 June 2008, 16:18

To: Madcrow

Quote:

a DSLR that I really need to buy (I'm a photonut and film costs are killing me)

I totally know what you mean!

In my country we have a saying: "no money no vices"

Anyway i had that same passion for photography,i had an old russian Zenith equiped with a Telescopic Zoom, i then sold all my stuff and bought a digital camera. Not the same but... now i dont need to have lab nor film nor other expensive equipment.And i can always choose the pictures i want to print...and its better for the environment too!

alphonsus · 16 June 2008, 19:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madcrow

I wish I could afford a Natami... Unfortunately, I have school to pay for, a DSLR that I really need to buy (I'm a photonut and film costs are killing me) and I really ought to replace my A500's dodgy "only works when positioned just right" power supply...

A feng shui power supply! Where can i get one?

turrican3 · 17 June 2008, 03:27

wich part of the amiga stay under licence ?
i mean amiga shell stay under licence ?
the 1 st workbench stay under licence ?
when all this stuff stop to be under licence ?
ps : for to be adapted for the natami

StingRay · 17 June 2008, 11:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samurai_Crow

It would be more work to patch up the incompatibilities of the Coldfire than it would be to develop a whole new 68070 CPU.

Interesting.... In a german Amiga forum the self-proclaimed Natami "spokesman" (BigGun) claimed it would be absolutely no problem to make everything Coldfire compatible. He even claimed it would be absolutely no problem to disassemble the complete Kickstart in a week(!) and add the necessary Coldfire fixes (His words: "I feel sorry for everyone who needs longer than a week to disassemble the Kickstart.").

Once me and other people told him that and why this is nonsense, he left the forum in a rather childish way.

He even placed a bet of 1000 EUR that he can disassemble and fix the Kickstart in a week. Needless to say, once I accepted the bet (well, would have been easily earned 1000EUR ;D) he remained silent.

Interesting that the Coldfire idea is now dropped, I'd like to see what Mr.BigGun has to say about that now.

alexh · 17 June 2008, 11:39

The last day of Summer 2008 is September 22, 15:44

I wouldnt expect anything until then at the earliest

Samurai_Crow · 17 June 2008, 16:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by StingRay

Interesting.... In a german Amiga forum the self-proclaimed Natami "spokesman" (BigGun) claimed it would be absolutely no problem to make everything Coldfire compatible. He even claimed it would be absolutely no problem to disassemble the complete Kickstart in a week(!) and add the necessary Coldfire fixes (His words: "I feel sorry for everyone who needs longer than a week to disassemble the Kickstart.").

Once me and other people told him that and why this is nonsense, he left the forum in a rather childish way.

He even placed a bet of 1000 EUR that he can disassemble and fix the Kickstart in a week. Needless to say, once I accepted the bet (well, would have been easily earned 1000EUR ;D) he remained silent.

Interesting that the Coldfire idea is now dropped, I'd like to see what Mr.BigGun has to say about that now.

BigGun's real name is Gunnar von Boehm and he posts to the Natami website quite regularly. He is indeed a member of the team and I didn't say that Coldfire was impossible, only impractical.

IMHO, the only thing keeping the Kickstart from running on the Coldfire is legal issues. Maybe someday it will run on a Coldfire. I personally could care less. The main reason they switched to the 68070 design is that they could add opcodes to it to make tighter integration with the SuperAGA chipset.

Cammy · 18 June 2008, 01:13

Why is the 68070 design like a "200Mhz 040"? Is it based on the 040 design, and if so,why isn't it based on the 060? I was under the impression that the 040 was more inofficient and incompatible compared to the 060 design. I remember 040s needed fans but 060s didn't, I hope the Natami doesn't need a fan. Will programs and games that are 060 optimised work on the Natami? I'm a bit confused, sorry.

Also, since the SuperAGA chipset is more capable than any Amiga graphics cards, will it be RTG as well? Will games that require a RTG graphics card (using Picasso or CyberGFX) work on and take advantage of the SuperAGA graphics? Or will these games be limited to using optional AGA modes, which many newer games don't even have?

Once the Natami is completed, how much extra hardware would be needed to add a modern PPC CPU and AmigaOS4 compatibility? And how would such a system compare to an AmigaOne?

Sorry for all the questions, but I'm just so interested and curious. I want to make games for this thing, and I hope many others will too. The fact that you can program your game the same way as you would have for any other Amiga game, but have all these extra abilities means people can jump straight into coding for it. Imagine, a system capable of arcade quality games that anyone can develop for, and it's not some overpowered, bloated, bogged down PC system, but a super efficient little chip-based Natami. You could market it to non-Amiga retro-gaming people as a whole new arcade game system, but with 20+ years of development and support behind it.

rkauer · 18 June 2008, 06:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cammy

Why is the 68070 design like a "200Mhz 040"? Is it based on the 040 design, and if so,why isn't it based on the 060? I was under the impression that the 040 was more inofficient and incompatible compared to the 060 design. I remember 040s needed fans but 060s didn't, I hope the Natami doesn't need a fan. Will programs and games that are 060 optimised work on the Natami? I'm a bit confused, sorry.

The new CPU have the behaviour of the 040, not its issues. A 040 is more compatible with Amiga software than a 060. Of course, 060 pure code will not run. But 000, 020 and 030 will do!

Quote:

Also, since the SuperAGA chipset is more capable than any Amiga graphics cards, will it be RTG as well? Will games that require a RTG graphics card (using Picasso or CyberGFX) work on and take advantage of the SuperAGA graphics? Or will these games be limited to using optional AGA modes, which many newer games don't even have?

Probably yes. When some coder make a Super-AGA RTG "driver", then we will have the ability to run RTG-games and applications.

Quote:

Once the Natami is completed, how much extra hardware would be needed to add a modern PPC CPU and AmigaOS4 compatibility? And how would such a system compare to an AmigaOne?

From the site, the NatAmi will have a CPU slot. That's a simple question of put a new accelerator on it. Even a PPC unit.

But don't expect OS4 for it. Legal impediments....

Methanoid · 18 June 2008, 08:59

I just love the way you all just post away like this thing is actually gonna happen!!!

Alexh is the only one with a drop of sanity left? Amiga withdrawal got to you all so much? I loved my Miggy's but we have to move on.. NatAmi is a dream... it might happen but he'll get bored and move on...

If a team of say 10 individuals were working on the hardware then it might happen in a sensible timescale and if 2 or 3 got a life then it might still happen...

You're all going GaGa over a POSSIBLE item.. get a grip and some perspective guys!!

alexh · 18 June 2008, 10:18

A 68040 clone running at 200MHz in an *affordable* FPGA? Heh heh heh, dont make me laugh so much, it hurts

RedskullDC · 18 June 2008, 12:10

Hi Alexh,

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexh

A 68040 clone running at 200MHz in an *affordable* FPGA? Heh heh heh, dont make me laugh so much, it hurts

Concur with you fully here. Still in the stratosphere.

Emulating the 68000 is one thing, the 68040 is another story entirely.

68000 = ~68000 transistors, 68040 = 1.2Million transistors.

On an interesting side note, Altera are releasing the Coldfire V1 core for their Cyclone III chips for free.

Red

alexh · 18 June 2008, 12:44

It will be an already partially synthesised or encrypted netlist. They wont release the source code that people can tweak :-(

RedskullDC · 18 June 2008, 13:14

Hi Alexh,

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexh

It will be an already partially synthesised or encrypted netlist. They wont release the source code that people can tweak :-(

Yep, you're right. Will be an SOPC builder component.
Still for $0 is worth tinkering with.

More info :
http://www.ip-extreme.com/downloads/...I_Brochure.pdf

Of particular interest to what we were discussing, they quote:
" 80MHz (typical)" (on a cyclone3).

A far cry from 200MHz !!

Red

Samurai_Crow · 18 June 2008, 18:12

@RedskullDC

The consumer grade Natami will not be on an FPGA, also the experimental 68070 will be integrated with the SuperAGA chipset so it should be able to do such things as enqueue blit nodes in a single opcode, etc.

Also, the freebie Coldfire core is only a 2 stage pipeline (or so it was said on the Natami website...).

alexh · 18 June 2008, 19:34

Now they are going to make an ASIC?

BULLSHIT

WTF are they going to get the money to do an ASIC? We are talking at least $300,000 non-recoverable expenditure on an ASIC even at a fairly high geometry 0.18um

Jope · 18 June 2008, 20:08

Hahah.. I thought it looked bad when I saw the "let the community request features" thread on amiga.org.

<facepalm>

amiga · 18 June 2008, 20:30

Please guys, go to NatAmi official forum ( http://natami.net/knowledge.php ) and ask questions there, instead of speculating here!

alexh · 18 June 2008, 20:57

This is not speculation:

If they are going to try to use an FPGA it will not run at 400MHz.
If they are going to make an ASIC it will cost them at least $300,000 before they see 1 chip.

18 June 2008, 12:44	#114
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,354	It will be an already partially synthesised or encrypted netlist. They wont release the source code that people can tweak :-( Last edited by alexh; 18 June 2008 at 12:50.

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16 June 2008, 15:29	#102
turrican3 Moon 1969 = amiga 1985 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: belgium Age: 48 Posts: 3,913	do you think that it s possible to see os4.0 on natami ? For me i suppose it's possible but amiga.inc should give a licence and that will be harder.

17 June 2008, 03:27	#105
turrican3 Moon 1969 = amiga 1985 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: belgium Age: 48 Posts: 3,913	wich part of the amiga stay under licence ? i mean amiga shell stay under licence ? the 1 st workbench stay under licence ? when all this stuff stop to be under licence ? ps : for to be adapted for the natami

17 June 2008, 11:39	#107
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,354	The last day of Summer 2008 is September 22, 15:44 I wouldnt expect anything until then at the earliest

18 June 2008, 01:13	#109
Cammy Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Tasmania, Australia Age: 39 Posts: 1,189	Why is the 68070 design like a "200Mhz 040"? Is it based on the 040 design, and if so,why isn't it based on the 060? I was under the impression that the 040 was more inofficient and incompatible compared to the 060 design. I remember 040s needed fans but 060s didn't, I hope the Natami doesn't need a fan. Will programs and games that are 060 optimised work on the Natami? I'm a bit confused, sorry. Also, since the SuperAGA chipset is more capable than any Amiga graphics cards, will it be RTG as well? Will games that require a RTG graphics card (using Picasso or CyberGFX) work on and take advantage of the SuperAGA graphics? Or will these games be limited to using optional AGA modes, which many newer games don't even have? Once the Natami is completed, how much extra hardware would be needed to add a modern PPC CPU and AmigaOS4 compatibility? And how would such a system compare to an AmigaOne? Sorry for all the questions, but I'm just so interested and curious. I want to make games for this thing, and I hope many others will too. The fact that you can program your game the same way as you would have for any other Amiga game, but have all these extra abilities means people can jump straight into coding for it. Imagine, a system capable of arcade quality games that anyone can develop for, and it's not some overpowered, bloated, bogged down PC system, but a super efficient little chip-based Natami. You could market it to non-Amiga retro-gaming people as a whole new arcade game system, but with 20+ years of development and support behind it.

18 June 2008, 08:59	#111
Methanoid Retired Quartex Sysop Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Roman Verulamium Age: 58 Posts: 1,873	I just love the way you all just post away like this thing is actually gonna happen!!! Alexh is the only one with a drop of sanity left? Amiga withdrawal got to you all so much? I loved my Miggy's but we have to move on.. NatAmi is a dream... it might happen but he'll get bored and move on... If a team of say 10 individuals were working on the hardware then it might happen in a sensible timescale and if 2 or 3 got a life then it might still happen... You're all going GaGa over a POSSIBLE item.. get a grip and some perspective guys!!

18 June 2008, 10:18	#112
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,354	A 68040 clone running at 200MHz in an affordable FPGA? Heh heh heh, dont make me laugh so much, it hurts

18 June 2008, 18:12	#116
Samurai_Crow Total Chaos forever! Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Waterville, MN, USA Age: 49 Posts: 2,187	@RedskullDC The consumer grade Natami will not be on an FPGA, also the experimental 68070 will be integrated with the SuperAGA chipset so it should be able to do such things as enqueue blit nodes in a single opcode, etc. Also, the freebie Coldfire core is only a 2 stage pipeline (or so it was said on the Natami website...).

18 June 2008, 19:34	#117
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,354	Now they are going to make an ASIC? BULLSHIT WTF are they going to get the money to do an ASIC? We are talking at least $300,000 non-recoverable expenditure on an ASIC even at a fairly high geometry 0.18um

18 June 2008, 20:08	#118
Jope - Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Helsinki / Finland Age: 43 Posts: 9,863	Hahah.. I thought it looked bad when I saw the "let the community request features" thread on amiga.org. <facepalm>

18 June 2008, 20:30	#119
amiga Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Amiga_land Posts: 443	Please guys, go to NatAmi official forum ( http://natami.net/knowledge.php ) and ask questions there, instead of speculating here!

18 June 2008, 20:57	#120
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,354	This is not speculation: If they are going to try to use an FPGA it will not run at 400MHz. If they are going to make an ASIC it will cost them at least $300,000 before they see 1 chip.

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