Bestest console ever for shmups?

[Shatterhand]

In Gradius, you are forced to look down at the text - BORING, if I wanted to read some text I'd rather read a book -, therefore losing precious milliseconds and leaving you in potential danger. But I guess it was an additional way for the developer to artificially raise the difficulty and grab your coins....

This is abusing moderator power. You know it.

And don't even get me started on the lack of Copper gradients and pausing for nearly-eternal decrunching phases after each level. Total rubbish, I tell you

Gradius 2 on MSX (Exclusive game for the MSX, not a port from the arcade game) does that after you kill a boss. And it takes *a while*. It's very funny, the boss just stops moving or attacking you for 3 or 4 seconds, and you are like "What the heck is happening? Did the game freeze? What?" And suddenly, "BOOOM" the boss explodes and the game goes on.

We used to say the game gives you a pause to rest your thumb from pressing fire so many times

I am nearly sure my experience with Project-X was a lot more with the SE edition than the original one. Isn't the SE the one with just 3 disks? My memory may be fuzzy, but if my memory of level 1 being too long was from SE, the original is even worse then

But I counted 8 minutes from the longplay video, I really don't remember how long it went when I used to play it. I just remember it was *long*

[roondar]

Gradius 2 on MSX (Exclusive game for the MSX, not a port from the arcade game) does that after you kill a boss. And it takes *a while*. It's very funny, the boss just stops moving or attacking you for 3 or 4 seconds, and you are like "What the heck is happening? Did the game freeze? What?" And suddenly, "BOOOM" the boss explodes and the game goes on.

I had no idea (never had an MSX or MSX-2). That's way funny

I am nearly sure my experience with Project-X was a lot more with the SE edition than the original one. Isn't the SE the one with just 3 disks? My memory may be fuzzy, but if my memory of level 1 being too long was from SE, the original is even worse then

But I counted 8 minutes from the longplay video, I really don't remember how long it went when I used to play it. I just remember it was *long*

SE is three disks. As for the longplay...

[ Show youtube player ]
Level one starts at 4:48 and ends at 10:14. That's five minutes and twenty six seconds of PURE AWESOMENESS

[nobody]

Project x A500
+slightly better graphics
+slightly better sfx

Salamander PC engine
+better gameplay
+better music
+much better bosses
+more balanced difficulty
+fast and furious action

Winner: Salamander

[Shatterhand]

Salamander is a way better game than Project-X , no argument here

[d4rk3lf]

Still, to be called a professional shoot em upper, you need to finish Project X.

[roondar]

Originally Posted by nobody

Project x A500
+slightly better graphics
+slightly better sfx

Salamander PC engine
+better gameplay
+better music
+much better bosses
+more balanced difficulty
+fast and furious action

Winner: Salamander

I don't even agree with that list

Salamander has better GFX to my mind. I love the 'teeth' in level 1 and later the 'fire burst' in level 3. It does get crazy hard in the later parts though, makes Project-X seem easy. But yeah, much better game.

[mcgeezer]

Today i watched a video of project x, i havent changed my thoughts on the game.
If i can sum up the game in one word it would be ‘uninspiring’.

Biggest gripes about it
Sluggish movement
25fps enemies by the looks of it
Enemies take multiple hits to destroy (only bosses should have this luxury)
The game enemies are linea... you fight one wave, then another of different type...its just boring.

The graphics are nice though but lack of a killer ingame tune makes this a long drawn affair with a shit sandwich for tea time.

[roondar]

Just for fun (and profit?), I'll point to an Amiga shoot em up I think truly deserves the label bad: Fusion.

Oh and I still think the PC Engine is probably the best retro console for shooters. Huge library, many excellent games.

[Shatterhand]

Just for fun (and profit?), I'll point to an Amiga shoot em up I think truly deserves the label bad: Fusion.

I could name a few, all worse than Project-X. Darius+ and Sirius 7 instantly comes to mind.

There other 2 horizontal shooters on Amiga that are VERY good and are nearly completely unknown:

Ziriax, which I found out by trying out random WHDLoad games and I was completely blown away by it, and wondered how the heck I had never heard about it.

Powder, which I only heard first here on this forum and it's also a great game.

[roondar]

Originally Posted by Shatterhand

I could name a few, all worse than Project-X. Darius+ and Sirius 7 instantly comes to mind.

The point was obviously that the game I mentioned is not just worse than Project-X, it is much, much, much worse. One is fairly uninspiring (boring even at points), but OK on a 'technology' level. The other is neither OK on the 'technology' level, nor even remotely close to being as good as to be 'uninspiring'.

A small joke to show the difference between 'boring/average' and 'bad' if you will

There other 2 horizontal shooters on Amiga that are VERY good and are nearly completely unknown:

Ziriax, which I found out by trying out random WHDLoad games and I was completely blown away by it, and wondered how the heck I had never heard about it.

Powder, which I only heard first here on this forum and it's also a great game.

I'll be sure to check them out!

Got any affordable Mega Drive/SNES/PC Engine tips (as in on cartridge)?

[lmimmfn]

Originally Posted by d4rk3lf

Still, to be called a professional shoot em upper, you need to finish Project X.

I got midway in the last level back in the day and again just recently but I can't remember if it was on the SE version for either, although my SEU reflexes suck now so probably SE edition recently.

I quite like Project X but agree with the negatives of no music, multiple hit enemies which I hate and being quite tough and unforgiving. Also the backgrounds in level 1 look like they were generated by a PD landscape generator that was available back then, can't remember the name.

[Shatterhand]

Originally Posted by d4rk3lf

Still, to be called a professional shoot em upper, you need to finish Project X.

I've finished Gigawing, Thunder Dragon 2 and Armed Police Batrider. I think I've already earned my badge No need to suffer through mediocre games just to prove yourself, hehe

[Retro-Nerd]

Project-X gives every fan of Japanese shmups the ammunition they need. "Look, another dull and boring Euro shmup". Apidya or Z-Out are much better in level design or gameplay. Best thing you can say about it that the game has another brilliant title track from Allister Brimble.

[Shatterhand]

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

Project-X gives every fan of Japanese shmups the ammunition they need. "Look, another dull and boring Euro shmup". Apidya or Z-Out are much better in level design or gameplay. Best thing you can say about it that the game has another brilliant title track from Allister Brimble.

I'm kinda astonished about how Z-Out is so underrated. It's not a MASTERPIECE but it's better than most Amiga shmups. It's well done, well programmed, it has something that resembles level design, the soundtrack is awesome (I don't care about Project-X cool track if it only plays in title screen, durr). It's a very good game and usually forgotten on those discussions.

[Tigerskunk]

Originally Posted by mcgeezer

Today i watched a video of project x, i havent changed my thoughts on the game.
If i can sum up the game in one word it would be ‘uninspiring’.

Biggest gripes about it
Sluggish movement
25fps enemies by the looks of it
Enemies take multiple hits to destroy (only bosses should have this luxury)
The game enemies are linea... you fight one wave, then another of different type...its just boring.

The graphics are nice though but lack of a killer ingame tune makes this a long drawn affair with a shit sandwich for tea time.

There is a term for that style, which was coined a few years ago.

"Euro Shmup"

Usually this also adds a "health bar" for the player, since the gameplay mechanics and enemy placement are so shoddy you need to compensate for this.

Originally Posted by Shatterhand

I'm kinda astonished about how Z-Out is so underrated. It's not a MASTERPIECE but it's better than most Amiga shmups. It's well done, well programmed, it has something that resembles level design, the soundtrack is awesome (I don't care about Project-X cool track if it only plays in title screen, durr). It's a very good game and usually forgotten on those discussions.

I never felt it was underrated, on the opposite it was quite a big thing here in germany when it released. At least that was my impression.
For me it's still the most competently done and best looking R-Type Lookalike done back then...
The Giger-inspired-level is one of the best looking and sounding 16bit SHMUP-levels existing, imo.

[Shatterhand]

I never felt it was underrated, on the opposite it was quite a big thing here in germany when it released.

Good to know. I don't think people mention it enough when talking about amiga shmups. (And it's even more unfair when you think about how much Project-X and Xenon 2 are mentioned)

There is a term for that style, which was coined a few years ago.

"Euro Shmup"

Usually this also adds a "health bar" for the player, since the gameplay mechanics and enemy placement are so shoddy you need to compensate for this.

Inertia and in-game shopping for weapons are also usually very present in Euro-shmups.

Also techno soundtrack that sounds like could had been done on an Amiga.

[JudasEZT]

I also think that Z-Out was slightly underrated in its time.

The truth is that is one of the best horizontal shoot'emups on Amiga. This one together with Apydia and the Ship stages of Turrican 2 are, imho, the bestest of all.

Project X stays far far from the level of these three.

[Tigerskunk]

Originally Posted by Shatterhand

Inertia and in-game shopping for weapons are also usually very present in Euro-shmups.

yes, so horrible and immersion breaking..

Originally Posted by Shatterhand

Also techno soundtrack that sounds like could had been done on an Amiga.

haha...

[roondar]

Originally Posted by Shatterhand

Inertia and in-game shopping for weapons are also usually very present in Euro-shmups.

The vast majority euro-shmups I played have no inertia. I still don't get where you got this idea from. There's only two I can name of the top of my head: Xenon-2 (though that may simply be the 17FPS update lag) and Project-X.

The shops were ultimately a bad idea, true. Do note they're also present in a number of Japanase shooters, though. As as in-between-level-selection screens for weapons or route, which also break immersion IMHO.

[Retro-Nerd]

Blood Money, X-Out, Disposable Hero and probably a few more on the Amiga. But shops are indeed nothing "Euro shmup" exclusive. You find them in Forgotton Worlds, Lords of Thunder, Ordyne, U.N. Squadron and some more.