Details for the next generation of Flickerfixers from Individual Computers

[johnim]

hi will any more be made?

thanks

[Schoenfeld]

Originally Posted by johnim

hi will any more be made?

Indivision AGA MK2cr is an active product - it's in stock and available either directly or from my resellers.

Jens

[demolition]

Originally Posted by hansel75

We have invested a lot of money into your products, personally i own the Indi Mk2 and the Indi Ecs, that's a lot of cash u have made there as these aren't cheap to buy, so why not support your customers a bit better instead of being really unhelpful all the time.

I would of at least expected Vsync support with the MK2, the Indi Ecs has it so why not the MK2, i think a lot of people who bought the MK2 simply presumed it would support Vsync at some stage because the Ecs version did.

Just because you thought they were expensive, that doesn't mean he made a lot of money off it. It is expensive to design this stuff, make several prototypes, put stuff into production, maybe do some redesigns/fixes like with the ACA620 and the Indivision ECS. The scale of mass production today has just made us used to getting stuff very cheaply, but it can only work if you're making millions of units, which clearly is not going to happen with Amiga stuff today.

And did the Indivision ECS have Vsync support? I have one of those, and I haven't seen Vsync mentioned?

[hansel75]

Originally Posted by demolition

Just because you thought they were expensive, that doesn't mean he made a lot of money off it. It is expensive to design this stuff, make several prototypes, put stuff into production, maybe do some redesigns/fixes like with the ACA620 and the Indivision ECS. The scale of mass production today has just made us used to getting stuff very cheaply, but it can only work if you're making millions of units, which clearly is not going to happen with Amiga stuff today.

And did the Indivision ECS have Vsync support? I have one of those, and I haven't seen Vsync mentioned?

My bad, it wasn't the Indi Ecs versions that had Vsync, i haven't been able to use my Indi Ecs as the new A604 trapdoor ram i bought that's needed with the Indi, doesn't work in my revision of my A600 although my original trapdoor ram works fine.

It was actually the Indi AGA Mk1 that has Vsync support, which makes it even more puzzling as to why the MK2 doesn't support it-

Indivision AGA 1200 / Indivision AGA 4000
http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/indivisionaga

"Two output modes can be chosen:
Async mode: output pixel clock of Amiga modes are multiplied 2.5 times
Vertical Sync mode: exact double of Amiga mode pixel clock (eliminates tearing effects)"

Also more info here-

Indivision AGA MK1
http://wiki.icomp.de/wiki/Indivision_AGA_MK1

"Two options have been added for retro-gaming enthusiasts that allow a step-by-step approximation to the display of an old TV set: Vertical synchronisation allows reducing the output frequency down to 49.9 Hz, which will eliminate tearing effects. In addition to that, a scanline emulation can be switched on. This will simulate the dark lines between the scanlines of a TV screen."

Also i do realize that the amiga hardware market is not huge, but if your going to make a product and have people pay good money for it, then i would at least expect better after sales support and software updates, rather then moving your attention to another project, being the ACA500.

If it wasn't for people like me and a few others who every few months, raises the topic again about the MK2 status and asking if we will ever get these wanted features, then the MK2 would be dead and forgotten about.

In saying that i do respect Jens and what he is doing, having bought 4 of his products i think i have shown my support.

[JimDrew]

Yeah, I don think people quite understand how much is involved in design, prototyping, and production of hardware. Back in the day, we geared everything towards at least 50K pieces to be sold. Now, you might sell a few thousand pieces over a period of many years. Production cost is much higher in lower quantities, and there really is not much profit in this stuff when you don't charge an outrageous amount for it.

Telling a developer that they NEED to add features just because it might be able to do it is absolutely ridiculous. If a product does what it is advertised to do, then nothing else should be expected.

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by JimDrew

Telling a developer that they NEED to add features just because it might be able to do it is absolutely ridiculous. If a product does what it is advertised to do, then nothing else should be expected.

Actually... Yes. Nobody can force a developer to do anything. But if you have a bit of hardware that you know your not utilizing to it's full potential, and don't have the time, or resources to go on developing it beyond the current scope, hardware, that from the get go, is aimed straight at enthusiasts, you could, and here is a crazy idea, release the stuff for the community to go on developing the firmware? Unit sold new as it currently is, warranty applies only with official firmware loaded, but the community has, at-least the possibility, to realize some of the features the hardware promises to be able to fulfill. Stuff like graffiti, v-sync, and such.
That doesn't mean there would instantly be a shitload of features, but people could if they wanted start looking at developing it as a community effort. And it doesn't mean Jens cant stick the stuff the community comes up with, in the official firmware, if he wants to. Or do his own development when time is available.

Anyway. I've managed to get some video on my telly. At this point i'm pretty sure it's just me not really knowing what to do with the software thats the main issue over here, and it does what i explicitly need it to. I've still ended up hooking the Amiga to a monitor, and not the TV i bought for the only reason to hook consoles & the Amiga to (don't watch TV, 3 year old unit, less then 100 hours use.) since i've pretty much just given up on getting it to work as "intended".

[BarryB]

More in depth documentation would help, explain what each setting does and it's effect. The bit of A4 paper supplied barely qualifies as a 'manual' as it is!

[hansel75]

Originally Posted by Mr B

here is a crazy idea, release the stuff for the community to go on developing the firmware?

Agreed!

Originally Posted by BarryB

More in depth documentation would help, explain what each setting does and it's effect. The bit of A4 paper supplied barely qualifies as a 'manual' as it is!

Agreed!


Also i have attached my Indi MK2 cfg again for anyone having issues setting one up, and wants to try it out for a nice full screen gaming resolution!

[JimDrew]

Originally Posted by Mr B

Actually... Yes. Nobody can force a developer to do anything. But if you have a bit of hardware that you know your not utilizing to it's full potential, and don't have the time, or resources to go on developing it beyond the current scope, hardware, that from the get go, is aimed straight at enthusiasts, you could, and here is a crazy idea, release the stuff for the community to go on developing the firmware?

You expect a developer to just give away their work? That's ridiculous. You clearly have no idea how much time and money is invested in product development.

[kipper2k]

I do have a couple of the indivisions but now i have bought the scart to HDMI adapter i will now use that instead as the quality is amazing and no messing about with configs and TV model incompatibilies. It works for what i want from my Amiga

[hansel75]

Originally Posted by JimDrew

You expect a developer to just give away their work? That's ridiculous. You clearly have no idea how much time and money is invested in product development.

Well if it's the only way to get extra features, then why not!

[nikos.rizos]

Originally Posted by kipper2k

I do have a couple of the indivisions but now i have bought the scart to HDMI adapter i will now use that instead as the quality is amazing and no messing about with configs and TV model incompatibilies. It works for what i want from my Amiga

Hey Brian.

What scart2hdmi are you using?

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by JimDrew

You expect a developer to just give away their work?

If that is the way to make the largest profit of it, then yes.

Originally Posted by JimDrew

That's ridiculous. You clearly have no idea how much time and money is invested in product development.

Actually, i do. Which is exactly why the enthusiast market is a great target audience for a source release. Custom firmware = no support. The developer can focus on other things, and periodically check back, to bugtest, and update the official firmware with content from the enthusiasts development. (If there is any. Releasing the source doesn't automatically mean there would be.) It wouldn't be entirely without cost for the developer, since official firmware needs to be checked over and over before releasing, but it removes a lot of the trial and error in the development process, and would give users something to experiment with before a feature is added to the official firmware, and feature set.

[Retrofan]

Well, in fact it was with some external help (Ratte and a bit of me) that 800x600 modes like SuperPlus actually work

Originally Posted by Retrofan

...This is an old post, but tells exactly the problem to support SuperPlus:

Google translation: "I've written several times that SuperPlus is not supported. At the moment there are no plans of that happening once. The specification of the Indivision is older than the mode. If you now want to change something in the specs, it costs effort and expense is outweighed in our world with money.

In short, if anyone here wants SuperPlus, then money must be collected. New screen mode detector in the FPGA core and extension of the tools, which is a size that I can not even express in money at the moment because I have not the time to give me an overview of the effort."

The graffiti support could also be implemented with external help.

[kipper2k]

Originally Posted by nikos.rizos

Hey Brian.

What scart2hdmi are you using?

Here ya go

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=72555

[JimDrew]

Sorry, but you are going to find that most developers would rather throw it away rather than give it away.

seriously thinking of getting Indivision AGA 1200 MK2cr today to work with my dell lcd monitor, is all the issues with this sorted out now ?

[TreacleWench]

I think most issues are solved since the release of the config tool v1.2, certainly the ones that make the device unusable.

Some people, including myself, never experienced any issues in the first place. I guess we were just lucky with the monitor we were using.

ok cool, might grab myself a new keyboard too and some case screws lol

[TreacleWench]

Originally Posted by alienkidmj12

ok cool, might grab myself a new keyboard too and some case screws lol

I know what you mean. When I had my 1200D it spent about 90% of it's life open!