Gods -Deluxe- beta released

[MadWasp]

Hi There!


After twenty days no more news in this theme?

[girv]

jotd, I'd be interested to hear more techy stuff about how you implemented the game in Java. Like, did you use a "game engine" library thing or just use the Java APIs straight off ?

[jotd]

Originally Posted by girv

jotd, I'd be interested to hear more techy stuff about how you implemented the game in Java. Like, did you use a "game engine" library thing or just use the Java APIs straight off ?

Well, for the first java remake I created (Supercars III), I used a game engine called GTGE.
Since the engine had some annoying "features" and I thought there were some CPU issues (engine was taking too much CPU power), I remade the minimal functions using roughly the same interface, and used it for Gods.

For sound effects, I made my own engine too. I'm not too satisfied about it but it works.

For the joystick inputs, I adapted a JNI DLL that I had found on the web.

I used a free MP3 java replay package for musics, except for the title music , where I used a free MOD player (I could have converted it to MP3, but it works this way and it's smaller!)

So to answer the question, there's a generic game engine within Gods, but I have written it. The source is freely available in the package of course.

For the graphics I used png rips from MaVado, and I built 2 different editors:

- a tileset editor which allows to tag and name static and animated tiles giving them a name an a type: eg background tile, foreground tile, enemy, etc..,

- a level editor using the tileset created by the first editor to compose levels. The editor is able to recognise tiles within a .png image. I could almost effortlessly remake the original levels from the maps in HOL (although they were a bit buggy so I also used a bit of the Sega maps).

That editor allows you to position & configure bonuses, monsters and monster triggers, ... on the map. You have to create zones for side & face doors, and also teleports, level ends...

The nice thing about having tagged the tiles is that you hardly have to define walls and platforms. Those are "foreground" blocks. There are exceptions, and special zones to convert foreground blocks in background blocks and reverse.

When you enter a zone, some callback is triggered. Most callbacks can be achieved without any extra code because there are pre-defined object associations like

- walk in a zone => display such and such monster
- pull a level => open/close trap
- walk in a zone with an object => remove the object and show a key

You can also code stuff for more complex behaviour, and mix both ways of adding behaviour to the level.

I hope it's detailed enough for you. I must say that I'm glad about how development went (compared to Supercars III) and I'm very proud of the result.

Ok, enough babbling

@MadWasp: sorry if I stopped (temporarily) the design of the new levels. I think I'll resume work in a few weeks.

[girv]

Thanks for the info jotd. I hadn't downloaded the package when I wrote the question and didn't realise the full source code was in the package too! I've been a corporate (J2EE) Java programmer for some years now and I was curious how you could write games in Java as well

[girv]

One more thing Was it a concious decision to use Java or was it just a language you already knew ?

[jotd]

Originally Posted by girv

One more thing Was it a concious decision to use Java or was it just a language you already knew ?

I had a 5-day training paid by my company, and then I managed a student for a java based tool at work.
Of course I knew C++ extremely well, which also helps.

Then I started the remakes and things became serious

[gimbal]

I like Java for games because it can be made to run on different OS'es of course, especially now that java has been made open source, but it is also amazing how easy and quick it is to write the games. The greatest strength in Java is how easy it is to debug the code, and the gigantic API set that backs it. But the native APIs are not the only good thing, just look at the effort being made to bring all popular C++ APIs to Java:

LWJGL (OpenGL, OpenAL, joystick support): http://www.lwjgl.org/
JOGL (OpenGL): https://jogl.dev.java.net/
JOAL (OpenAL): https://joal.dev.java.net/
FMOD: http://topresultmate.com/fmod/

(for people who do not know, OpenAL is an open source audio library. OpenAL provides cross-platform support for 3D audio in the same way OpenGL provides cross-platform support for 3D graphics. For example Creative provides a hardware accelerated OpenAL driver that supports EAX technologies).

Using these APIs alone helps a lot to make games truly cross-platform, with little to no loss in frame rate. The only disadvantage to Java is the fact that the runtime needs to be installed, which means people might have to go to java.com and click a big green button. But the "Java Web Start" technology, which allows you to install or update a java application by clicking a web link (even adding it to the uninstall options of the OS), makes it so easy to distribute and run the games.

Meh, I will stop selling Java now, I know I will not convince people who have already slated it as being a tool of the devil

[girv]

I've already replied to jotd by PM as I didn't want to hijack his thread too much, but I'll repeat it here now that someone else has joined the discussion

Some time ago I'd looked into quite a few options for developing homebrew games - C++, Java, Blitz Basic (and similar) and even Python (with pyGame). My conclusion was that C++ with the SDL library was the combination with the best cross-platform ability - there would even be a chance of an Amiga OS4 / PPC port, GP32x etc.!

Java runs on fewer platforms (honestly) and has deployment issues (or so I thought), but also opens up the mobile world if I restrict myself to the J2ME / MIDP2.0 APIs.

I was interested to know why a C++ guy would chose Java for making games?

My true love is 68k of course

[gimbal]

Well lets drop the discussion right here, these discussions need to take place on a game development forum and... well there are flame wars almost every day about these subjects

I will conclude by agreeing with you that C++ is still the *best* choice to do games, but I add that Java has become a very good second option because of the development and debugging ease. But I see Java more for free open source games, not for commercial products.

[jotd]

@gimbal: I agree 100%. Unless you need to do Java for mobile phones

Well, a little more "on-topic", version 0.4 of the remake is out. It features 2 complete custom levels (based on level 1 & level 2 graphics).
I think they're challenging enough. I'm starting work on a custom level 3.

[gimbal]

Out of interest: are you going to do another remake after you are done with gods?

[jotd]

Originally Posted by gimbal

Out of interest: are you going to do another remake after you are done with gods?

I was contemplating Magic Pockets. I'm not sure

[gimbal]

Meh, Magic Pockets is too much like Gods. Supercars - Gods - need something new to sink your teeth in

[laffer]

A remake of "It Came from the Desert" would be very awesome. Pretty different from the ones you've done too.

[Dastardly]

Hey Jotd.

If it's a BB game you're considering, how about Chaos Engine? You could give us the sequel the original deserves!

Looking forward to giving your latest version of Gods a run through

[Anubis]

What he really means is Superfrog.

See connection: supercars, superfrog....

[jotd]

To remake a game I would need to know it by heart. That's the case with the following ones:

Cadaver: I don't have too many ideas for new puzzles.

Chaos Engine: good idea, but it would be tough: the maps are not ripped, neither are the graphics, and computer AI would be hard to remake. The music would need special treatment too. But that's right: the game could use more levels & more secrets.

Gods & Supercars II, and that's also the case with Magic Pockets, Cadaver, and The Chaos Engine.
CE II sucked I agree.

Magic Pockets: you're right, the effort would not be too big to remake it, considering that the game could be easily derived from Gods and that I have all the game maps & ripped gfx. I could even keep the monster AI. But I don't see how I could enhance it. There are no puzzles like in Gods. New gamemaps would be cool, but nothing like extending Gods or Chaos Engine.

Superfrog: new maps would have to be designed. I don't feel like it.

About ICFD: I don't know it enough, and fail to see what would be the benefit of a remake. It would need new graphics, new sections, ... So no.

Other ideas?

[gimbal]

Well I was toying around with the idea to do a multiplayer cannon fodder. I would see it like a 2d battlefield:vietnam really. Each player controls their own soldier and uses everything cannon fodder has to blast the others into oblivion; grenades, rockets, exploding rooftops, vehicles... going really far also the helicopter could be used in teamplay games to transport teammembers or something.

I envision a mode where one person drives around in a jeep and everyone else has the task to blow him up; I can see it now, rockets flying everywhere, blowing everything BUT the jeep up... major fun.

[frikilokooo]

Originally Posted by jotd

Chaos Engine: good idea, but it would be tough: the maps are not ripped, neither are the graphics, and computer AI would be hard to remake. The music would need special treatment too. But that's right: the game could use more levels & more secrets.

I agree,this game has the double work that most of Amiga games.The playability has a lot work and there are piles of upgrade weapons,hidden levels...OMG!

[laffer]

Would be nice to have a version running in XP though.. I know a lot of people who don't want to even try using emulators.