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Old 13 February 2020, 11:47   #301
roondar
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Originally Posted by Steril707 View Post
As someone just wanting to see the engine in action, I think I'd be happy with just a screen capture of 2 minutes showing what's happening.

This thing is impressive enough, no need to make a hollywood movie out of it..
That might be worth adding to my list

As in: best keep in mind your target audience, they just want to see the engine/game and don't mind the rest as much
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Old 13 February 2020, 12:22   #302
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Originally Posted by steril707 View Post
as someone just wanting to see the engine in action, i think i'd be happy with just a screen capture of 2 minutes showing what's happening.

This thing is impressive enough, no need to make a hollywood movie out of it..
+1
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Old 13 February 2020, 16:04   #303
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In general, I'd say there's many ways to make it easier/quicker, but which ones will work for you is somewhat personal. But I'd still like to help, so here's my personal top list (in order of how much time they saved me).
Thanks. I'm coming to similar conclusions now. Originally I had 40 minutes of raw capture, where I tried to work and explain something simultaneously (that was original idea), so a lot of it had to be cut off and streamlined.

Quote:
Edit: one minor addition here, sometimes it can be due to the editor you've chosen. There are many, so if the above doesn't help the editor might just not be "for you". Don't hesitate to try something else in that case. I switched editors three times before I found one I was happy with.
I think I'm coming to terms with DaVinci Resolve, but I'll be glad to hear your list as well (including why they didn't work for you).

I've gone with Resolve because it's free and allows recording voiceovers directly into the video, and I think I'm getting hang of all the cutting, editing and stuff.

Quote:
As someone just wanting to see the engine in action, I think I'd be happy with just a screen capture of 2 minutes showing what's happening.
The video will show building a map from scratch, up to the point where I have two mildly detailed areas (just for the engine to handle), including some commentary how the process looks like, what are the limitations and explaining design choices. And there are definitely 2 minutes of engine action there. For future videos I'll probably change this approach to something hopefully much quicker to make (e.g. timelapse + final commentary for each room), but this time I just wanted to just finish it this way.

Quote:
As in: best keep in mind your target audience, they just want to see the engine/game and don't mind the rest as much
Well, youtubing was my secret dream for quite some time, and now I have something interesting going to show (hopefully). Also as well as documenting the process, I'd like to draw people to mapmaking and creating content a bit, so when that part is useable, the community could start having fun already without waiting years for me to make a boxed version.
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Old 13 February 2020, 16:34   #304
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Originally Posted by KK/Altair View Post
Thanks. I'm coming to similar conclusions now. Originally I had 40 minutes of raw capture, where I tried to work and explain something simultaneously (that was original idea), so a lot of it had to be cut off and streamlined.
Glad to be of help
Quote:
I think I'm coming to terms with DaVinci Resolve, but I'll be glad to hear your list as well (including why they didn't work for you).

I've gone with Resolve because it's free and allows recording voiceovers directly into the video, and I think I'm getting hang of all the cutting, editing and stuff.
I started out with a free editor that came with my analog capture card. I believe is was called VideoEasy. It didn't work for me because it didn't actually let you do all that much and didn't offer "permanent" overlays. Those were hard-limited to 1 minute, which was not what I wanted at the time. I only did two videos with it before giving up on it (and the second one was never publicly released).

Then I moved to Corel VideoStudio. That actually worked better than you might have expected, but over time I grew unhappy with both it's performance (rendering videos with effects sometimes took hours and hours), how often it crashed when you started pushing it and the limited control over where you put text or certain effects on screen. What also didn't help with Corel was that the control over audio levels was difficult to do precisely (you had to drag a bar on audio channels, which was not very accurate). Lastly, the version I had at the time had real trouble with chroma keying (which I wanted to try).

Now I'm using Vegas Pro (thanks to Humble bundle, otherwise I'd probably not have gotten it as it is expensive). Which is a whole different kettle of fish. Had a big learning curve, but it's extremely capable and the way you're supposed to work with it made sense to me. I especially ended up loving the ease with which you could do whole-video adjustments of colour or audio in one step and how you could use Vegas Pro projects as video source (so you can have your intro as a project and then simply include that as a video you can add new effects to later).
Quote:
Well, youtubing was my secret dream for quite some time, and now I have something interesting going to show (hopefully). Also as well as documenting the process, I'd like to draw people to mapmaking and creating content a bit, so when that part is useable, the community could start having fun already without waiting years for me to make a boxed version.
YouTube is fun, I did a bunch of videos on it and like seeing them on there. Of course, I didn't become a runaway success but that's ok. I like making videos from time to time and that's the point
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Old 13 February 2020, 18:30   #305
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YouTube is fun, I did a bunch of videos on it and like seeing them on there. Of course, I didn't become a runaway success but that's ok. I like making videos from time to time and that's the point
Care to share a ling to your channel? Apart from getting me interested, I'm really curious how your end results look like.

And I don't expect runaway success either. Except for within the Amiga community, which I kind of got already, that is.
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Old 13 February 2020, 18:36   #306
roondar
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Sure, it's over at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMg...8Ro5UjqocybXHg
But I do expect a link to your finished video in return when it's ready
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Old 14 February 2020, 01:59   #307
KK/Altair
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Originally Posted by roondar View Post
Great stuff! I'd love to reach such level of quality and presentation, but it would probably take me one month to make one minute video.
In fact, how long does it take for you to make such videos?


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But I do expect a link to your finished video in return when it's ready
Expect nothing less.
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Old 14 February 2020, 10:08   #308
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In cases like this, the proverb "don't let perfect be the enemy of good" really applies, imo...
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Old 14 February 2020, 12:06   #309
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@KK If making a movie of quality you desire is so much time consuming maybe it would be better and easier to roll that idea back for a while and return to classic blogpost/forum post format with screen grabs and embedded movies that illustrate your ideas. I even suspect that your target audience would prefer it that way. Coders especially.

On the other hand you can present your ideas with live commentary in form of lecture on demoparty like you did already.
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Old 14 February 2020, 12:07   #310
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Originally Posted by KK/Altair View Post
Great stuff! I'd love to reach such level of quality and presentation, but it would probably take me one month to make one minute video.
In fact, how long does it take for you to make such videos?
It all depends on what type of video I'm doing. Looking at the last three videos on my channel, the Powerglove one took about 2-3 hours in total (plus rendering and uploading), of which about 1-1 1/2 was recording.

The Dune 2 one took about 30-35 hours (plus rendering and uploading), of which about 2 hours was recording. The 30-35 hours also includes quite a bit of time taking screenshots, scripting, making masks in a graphics program, etc. That video has a ton of edits and was more about me wanting to do a very well crafted video than anything else. It also had a lot of stuff in it I hadn't done before, which is part of why it took so long.

The Audio Mixing one took about 5 hours (again, plus render & upload). The recording took about an hour, the rest was creating images (incl. finding a website that draws graphs), scripting and editing. Of course, that time does not include the time actually writing the program
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Expect nothing less.
Good, because I'm really looking forward to more about the game and editor. I find it super impressive so far and would love to play it
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Originally Posted by Steril707 View Post
In cases like this, the proverb "don't let perfect be the enemy of good" really applies, imo...
@KK/Altair: take this man's advice, he's right

Edit: the number one way to lower amount of time editing is to allow yourself to be not-perfect. If you look at my videos critically, you'll see that all of them include voice over/voice work that contains small errors (me correcting myself, awkward silences, doubled text, etc.). Most of them contain non-perfect cuts and pacing isn't perfect either. Allowing for that lowers the time. Striving for absolute perfection means nothing gets made
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Old 14 February 2020, 12:19   #311
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If I could throw my hat into the ring in terms of YouTube.

For editor I personally use VSDC, its a free video editor or can be purchased on yearly subscription very cheap. I like it because its basic and very easy to get used to.

My process for recording and editing is to do it scene at a time. For example record intro and voice over then edit. That bits done move on, new scene.

If I'm doing a voice over along with the video I usually try to record it at the same time using audacity. If I'm doing a voice over a montage of footage cut up I'll usually cut up the video first then just watch it back with the sound off while recording the voice over in audacity then just drop that into the video (if that makes sense).

Using these methods I'd been able to dramatically reduce the time I spend making a video. A typical 20 minute video when I started out took me the guts of 7-8 hours were now I can do it in maybe 2-3.

As for transitions or cuts etc I used to play with various different effects such as zooming, panning etc but its all time added onto editing. All I do now is 500ms fade to black between scenes and 500ms fades between simple cuts within a scene.

People will watch the video for the content not so much for the editing. In your case you've got fantastic content to show. Some very simple editing is all you need.

Anyone who ever asks me about starting youtube all I can tell them is to keep it in perspective. I've been at it about 18 months and just rolled over 300subs. You've got a very interesting subject and a lot of knowledge to talk and show so from that point I'd expect you to get some initial success but just keep it in perspective. Don't be down heartened if its not as quick a success as you expect.

Last edited by Glen M; 14 February 2020 at 12:22. Reason: rewrote 6th paragraph
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Old 14 February 2020, 12:30   #312
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@KK/Altair: nice to see that Tricity is at the cutting edge of Amiga coding. Greetings from Oliwa
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Old 14 February 2020, 17:44   #313
KK/Altair
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In cases like this, the proverb "don't let perfect be the enemy of good" really applies, imo...
This is my mantra when editing. Otherwise I wouldn't get past 1st minute.

Quote:
On the other hand you can present your ideas with live commentary in form of lecture on demoparty like you did already.
I'll be heading in this general direction, but still will probably record in parts, until I'll get more fluent at speaking my thoughts. But this time this approach didn't work, because it was meant more like a "making of" video.

Quote:
Edit: the number one way to lower amount of time editing is to allow yourself to be not-perfect. If you look at my videos critically, you'll see that all of them include voice over/voice work that contains small errors (me correcting myself, awkward silences, doubled text, etc.). Most of them contain non-perfect cuts and pacing isn't perfect either. Allowing for that lowers the time. Striving for absolute perfection means nothing gets made
I found that writing the text down and recording that sentence by sentence would give almost perfect result, as well as it's cutting recording/editing time. Half of my recording problems were caused by forgetting mid-sentence what I was going to say exactly. And this way, I'll also have quality subtitles ready.

Also this approach allows me to edit at home, because I can only record at my workplace (my kid is either playing loud, seeking attention, or asleep - and neither condition works for recording).

Quote:
If I could throw my hat into the ring in terms of YouTube.
You are more than welcome.

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If I'm doing a voice over along with the video I usually try to record it at the same time using audacity. If I'm doing a voice over a montage of footage cut up I'll usually cut up the video first then just watch it back with the sound off while recording the voice over in audacity then just drop that into the video (if that makes sense).
One of the key reasons I chose DaVinci Resolve was that I can record directly in the program. Just put a playback cursor in right position, arm a track, hit record - and you are on your way.

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A typical 20 minute video when I started out took me the guts of 7-8 hours were now I can do it in maybe 2-3.
That would be my dream target, as it would allow me making weekly updates (or at least bi-weekly). Thanks for acknowledging it's possible.
Could you share your channel link, or a link to a video made this way, to let me set my expectations right? (keeping in mind that done is better than perfect)

Quote:
People will watch the video for the content not so much for the editing. In your case you've got fantastic content to show. Some very simple editing is all you need.
Thanks. I'm not aiming for effects at all. And because I work with raw video capture of my workflow, all I ever used right now is simple cutting and speed manipulation (timelapse of a bit boring parts). Not even a single fadeout involved.

Quote:
Anyone who ever asks me about starting youtube all I can tell them is to keep it in perspective. I've been at it about 18 months and just rolled over 300subs. You've got a very interesting subject and a lot of knowledge to talk and show so from that point I'd expect you to get some initial success but just keep it in perspective. Don't be down heartened if its not as quick a success as you expect.
I don't expect any quick success - I just want to do my part ant just let it grow at its own pace (if at all).

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Greetings from Oliwa
Greetings from Wrzeszcz!
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Old 17 February 2020, 13:12   #314
Glen M
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Originally Posted by KK/Altair View Post
That would be my dream target, as it would allow me making weekly updates (or at least bi-weekly). Thanks for acknowledging it's possible.
Could you share your channel link, or a link to a video made this way, to let me set my expectations right? (keeping in mind that done is better than perfect)
My latest video just uploaded this morning maybe took me 5-6 hours BUT that was purely down to the amount of time spent trying to repair the C64 board in between recording. The actual 23 minutes of the video took about 2 hours to record and edit. Its very simple but works for me.

Video - [ Show youtube player ]
Channel - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7C...kusUoGf8zIceA/
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Old 17 February 2020, 17:48   #315
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My latest video just uploaded this morning maybe took me 5-6 hours BUT that was purely down to the amount of time spent trying to repair the C64 board in between recording. The actual 23 minutes of the video took about 2 hours to record and edit. Its very simple but works for me.
Nice. But you have nice presentation skills as well, recording larger sections in one go.
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Old 18 February 2020, 11:12   #316
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Nice. But you have nice presentation skills as well, recording larger sections in one go.
Thanks but some careful editing can make each section appear longer than it is. I try to record no longer than 3-5 minutes constant and if I make a mistake I simply pause, say edit (makes it easier to find the cut point later), then redo that part again and fix it in edit.

To the topic of this thread though.... Hows things coming with the engine / game? I do hope we are going to see something soon.
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Old 18 February 2020, 12:50   #317
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Originally Posted by KK/Altair View Post
Nice. But you have nice presentation skills as well, recording larger sections in one go.
I would be happy to see just short videos when something new is added to game. Just 20 sec videos to show over all game play and new features.
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Old 23 February 2020, 11:07   #318
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Ok, so what about... a 15:30 episode?

[ Show youtube player ]

ATTENTION: This video is still unlisted, just for you guys to check and maybe find potential problems and such. But if you think all is acceptable (not perfect! ), I'm publishing it.

I also written subtitles, so turn them on if my voice sounds incomprehensible.

Have fun!!
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Old 23 February 2020, 11:38   #319
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Originally Posted by KK/Altair View Post
ATTENTION: This video is still unlisted, just for you guys to check and maybe find potential problems and such. But if you think all is acceptable (not perfect! ), I'm publishing it.

Very nice work! Both on the engine and the video - very impressive!
(How much memory does the engine need?)


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I also written subtitles, so turn them on if my voice sounds incomprehensible.

I had no problem understanding what you were saying.
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Old 23 February 2020, 12:11   #320
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Wow! Not only is your game engine highly impressive but your video documentary is also really good. I found it easy to follow and to appreciate just how clever it is. You’re one clever and talented chap, sir. Very well done.
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