Matt Chat 56: Ocarina of Time

[gilgamesh]

Hi there, Matt made a new episode about Zelda on the N64.

[ Show youtube player ]

Enjoy!

[gimbal]

cool! The N64 Zeldas remain my favorites of them all. The rest of them just don't come close to the liveliness of the worlds and the amount of secret hunting that can be done. Especially the NDS versions have taken a big step back in terms of content (although they are still fun).

[mattbarton.exe]

I haven't played all of the Zelda games, but I've really been enjoying Ocarina. I also enjoyed Twilight Princess on my Wii. It's quite fun solving all those puzzles and getting such cool devices--reminds me a bit of Metroid.

[Adropac2]

Ocarina was and still is very awesome but also Majora's Mask that followed it- MM is a very beautifully unique game that's easily as great as Ocarina and Past

These days with games like Twilight for example, i find the experience a little too easy, to the point that it's become a little insulting- Twilight basically saw link go into one dungeon and then practically into another with the last few dungeons, such was the nature of the lead you by the hand design adopted here.I did however adore the art style and usual flair Nintendo has for realising quirky yet not over the top characters.Wind Waker was gorgeous and charming and oh so believable but it was too short and easy once again

Iv'e heard the ds versions are also very easy which is a shame as to me, Zelda is about being stuck, especially outside dungeons where you are led clue by clue- certainly not in Twilight though i remember

[mattbarton.exe]

Hehe. I must say I don't like being stuck at all. I guess if I had to choose I'd rather have a game be too easy than prone to getting stuck and forcing me to look at walkthroughs to get through. It's probably the reason why adventure games aren't as popular anymore. It's just too difficult to design puzzles that aren't too hard or too easy, but just right. I think the key is giving good feedback, so players know things like whether they have the needed item to solve a puzzle, or the area they need to do something in order to advance the story. I guess the ideal system would watch players' behavior and gradually nudge them in the right direction after a certain period had elapsed. Then again, it's easy to go overboard and just give them the answer, which I don't like, either. In any case, it wouldn't be hard to have a difficulty selector for folks who like getting stuck.

At any rate, the casual adventure games are getting better and better. I really enjoyed Safecracker.

[Dastardly]

I think some of the Nintendo franchises are being watered down to appeal to their new audience. A shame.

[Adropac2]

That's a big audience now that Nintendo has to cater for and it must be a nightmare for them to come up with a design that pleases all

I got into Zelda at the time of Snes and that kicked my arse- and i truly like that.Finally beating a puzzle for me after even days is hugely rewarding but i can see how that wouldn't be for everyone- certainly it's not the sort of thing that will keep people interested in your games.That said, i'v'e sadly lost much of my interest in this wonderfull franchise on this basis and that's a crying shame

[gimbal]

Originally Posted by Adropac2

Iv'e heard the ds versions are also very easy which is a shame as to me, Zelda is about being stuck, especially outside dungeons where you are led clue by clue- certainly not in Twilight though i remember

Not easy at all, but more linear; That's the real shame of it.

Spirit tracks is worse than the Phantom Hourglass - even your movement is restricted for large parts of the game because of those darned train tracks! But still the game completely draws me in and I am playing it for long stretches, so I will not call the game bad. It's fun, just not as awesome as the N64 games.

[Adropac2]

Well perhaps i will give them a try sometime soon as there really aren't any games i find that appeal in quite the same way.Being linear is something i don't like to hear in the same breath as a Zelda game but if i go into playing them knowing this, i should still be able to enjoy them

[Dastardly]

Originally Posted by Adropac2

That's a big audience now that Nintendo has to cater for and it must be a nightmare for them to come up with a design that pleases all

I actually think it's the other way around. The reason Nintendo now has this big audience is because they have dumbed down in every way. I believe that they don't give a crap about the gamers that made them anymore and that they are only interested in catering for their casual market.

[Adropac2]

I do believe Nintendo care but it's surely impossible to please what is likely a comparatively much small audience.At this same time they are trying to make smart business decisions forced by this much bigger new audience

Not sure why we still don't have a new F-zero or Pilotwings though and for that your argument is sound.At least iv'e got my Pikmin3 at some point

[Dastardly]

I agree that the original Nintendo die-hards are a small percentage of their now huge market and it's not possible to please everyone. But I do believe they have made a (sound business) decision to ignore their original fans and focus on the casuals. It's just a shame that a fantastic franchise like Zelda is now a watered down excuse for what it once was.

[Adropac2]

Agreed it's one of their franchises that should not been have tampered with concerning how difficult they are to play.Either that or they should have included a baby mode.And in that sense yes they do p!ss me off a bit.I mean it's not like die hard Nintendo fans mind the inferior tech despite how it should have been a better spec, but when you basically change things so much so that it appears you're putting your two fingers up at the fans, it's fair for them to moan and feel let down

I don't like punishingly stupid games but then Zelda never was to begin with

[TCD]

Once I read the thread title, I had the theme music in my head Guess that's a sign of a good game I loved playing it and even if the 3D controls weren't top notch, it's still one of my favourite non-FPS 3D games
Amazing game and vid (again) Matt

[mattbarton.exe]

Timely article on difficulty:
Analysis: Designing Games To Challenge Diverse Players

I've only skimmed it so far, but looks quite interesting. Lots of different approaches to difficulty in games.

[Falcon Flight]

i love and also totally detest the N64 Zeldas


Ocarina of Time....

-the first three dungeons (Deku Tree, Dodongo's Cavern, Ice Cavern) are pretty good.
-the Temples are all right, but the Water Temple is awfully hard. The Spirit Temple
is probably the best.
-exploration is interrupted too often by dialogues
-there are too many dialogues, the text comes up to slowly, it can't be skipped or
sped through at all.
-the game makes you feel stupid, reiterating everything, like you're in your 8th
dungeon, and being told how to use a Dungeon Map (something you were told in the
very first one, and in the 2nd, 3rd aaaarghhh!)
-there are just too many cutscenes, yes they're pretty, they're cinematic, there's
just too many. I don't like being a passive observer for this long.

- the whole Gerudo thief area is cool; Ganondorf/Ganon is total win.

- Z-targeting rocks; fighting larger but more powerful enemies one-on-one is FUN
-mini-boss and BOSS battles are MAJOR FUN; all of them, without exception

-music is damn good, riding epona is just sheer fun.
-there are too many mini games.

other than the time of day thing, differences with Ocarina and Majora's are cosmetic:

--Majora's has more detailed polygon models and higher resolution textures on them
--Dialogue outputs in the dialogue screen much faster
--Dialogue can even be skipped through if the player has been through it once before
--Link (in human form) does more acrobatic jumps (twisting in the air etc) when he
simply jumps normally across platforms.
--when you press start to bring up status/inventory etc., it comes up quicker, and
the screens rotate around quicker.
--some mini cutscenes like speeding up or slowing down time can be skipped, as well
as putting on and taking off masks.
--many even unimportant characters make small vocalisations when in dialogue; in
Ocarina, I believe it was only very important chars like Zelda and Ganondorf who
made vocal sounds.
-- lighting seems to be a lot more moody
-- the game, while not bereft of humour, certainly is a lot darker and more moody.
Skull Kid slaps a fairy fair across the face for eg.

ocarina is probably the best one: the epicness wins.

[gimbal]

Originally Posted by Falcon Flight

Ocarina of Time....

-the Temples are all right, but the Water Temple is awfully hard.

So hard in fact, that you can get yourself perpetually stuck in it if you do things in the wrong order. I think this is the only Zelda in existence where this is possible. Not by design of course.

I hate the water temple myself; once you know the trick it is easy, but it is just such an incredible bother to put the metal boots on/off/on/off/etc.

I prefer Majora's Mask myself, the technology behind that game is just incredible, as is its design. I also like that impending doom feeling that the game gives you, always strengthened by that large meteor inching closer and closer...

[Adropac2]

Yeah MM is about as awesome as it gets.Deeply satisyfying experience and one i expect many will have passed on due to it being so initially frustrating for them- the use of characters schedule is not exactly Zelda is it

It took me 2 full day 10 hour sessions before finished it- i was glued to my tv -and i still need to go back and make one final person happy

Probably the most rewarding and unique games iv'e played and Zelda fans owe it to themselves to finish this one

[laffer]

I like that quote at the end, too. In fact, I like the whole idea of ending each episode with a quote.

[gilgamesh]

Yes, and it is debatable whether a Beatles song can be a substitute.

While we're at it, cheers to Søren Trautner Madsen. He did a splendid job. My spine tingles every time I hear the opening credits.