make rain from tbl work perfectly with winuae - Page 2

amiga · 09 December 2009, 18:58

I tried it with latest Winuae beta, and it DOES work as intended !!!

My configuration is: plain workbench 3.1, 68020 + FPU (fastest possible, but maintain chipset timing, without CE) + JIT + 32 Meg Fast Ram + AGA (PAL)

TCD · 09 December 2009, 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by amiga

I tried it with latest Winuae beta, and it DOES work as intended !!!

You mean that you don't get the glitched graphics because the demo runs too fast :

?

amiga · 09 December 2009, 19:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheCyberDruid

You mean that you don't get the glitched graphics because the demo runs too fast :

?

Exactly !!

I don't get that corrupted graphics which is on the picture.

TCD · 09 December 2009, 19:26

What are the specs of your PC then? With fastest possible and JIT I always get that glitch here.

amiga · 09 December 2009, 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheCyberDruid

What are the specs of your PC then? With fastest possible and JIT I always get that glitch here.

My specs are rather old:

PII 400MHz
Graphics card: Matrox Graphics Millennium G200 AGP

Also, I use Line Mode: Double in "Display" settings of Winuae, and NO filters.

TCD · 09 December 2009, 19:44

Ah, that might explain it then

Thanks for the info amiga.

amiga · 09 December 2009, 19:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheCyberDruid

Ah, that might explain it then

Thanks for the info amiga.

Try without JIT !

TCD · 09 December 2009, 19:54

I did and it's far too slow then

andreas · 11 December 2009, 17:44

Well, maybe there's someone reading this having a dual or quad core to hand who could test it without JIT on his rocket-fast machine?

/me doesn't (still my ole AthlonXP - well it still works :P) so I would need to enable JIT too, though you guys are fully right - JIT *DOES* mess it up.

niobyte · 03 March 2010, 15:03

I did perform these tests on an Intel Quad Q6600 with an NVidia GeForce 8800GT 512 MB + 4GB RAM Windows XP SP2 /3GB and /PAE switches enabled.

Problems are too fast CPU

andreas · 08 March 2010, 01:22

OT alert...but that's a weird combination:
/3GB - increase virtual address space in kernel in order to cram more page tables in (NB: exclusively made for huge programs that can and will make use of this by enabling IMAGE_FILE_LARGE_ADDRESS_AWARE flag only)

/PAE is (afaik) only for systems >= 4 GB physical RAM.

Using both switches at the same time does not make much sense whatsoever. Even people who, in terms of experience in servers, have an additional 15 years 'plus' in there (compared to mine) would state that as well. YMMV, though.
(As with all those WPUMs [Windows Power User Myths] there are

)

TCD · 08 March 2010, 09:28

Wonder why Russ disabled comments... Anyway, they don't really hurt either (even if they don't make much sense for most apps).
MS explanation of the two switches : http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system...AE/PAEmem.mspx

pmc · 09 March 2010, 09:01

Aren't the problems with this demo running properly on WinUAE just down to a fundamental lack of accuracy in the emulation of > 68020 processors on the emulator...?

What I mean by this is: surely if you start from a base of inaccuracy, it doesn't matter what settings you use on the emulator, or on the machine running the emulator, you'll still get an inaccurate result. In this case a too fast / slow / out of sync demo.

If you get anything like an "it works OK here" result then this must just be mainly down to a luck I would've thought.

TCD · 09 March 2010, 10:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by pmc

If you get anything like an "it works OK here" result then this must just be mainly down to a luck I would've thought.

That's true. I wouldn't say that there's a lack of accuracy of the emulation, but a lack of the correct speed of the emulation matching a given processor/machine type. Maybe one day...

niobyte · 10 March 2010, 19:00

@andreas

Who said anything about using the switches at the same time. I have multiple OS installs. In fact in one I just use /PAE -> then again by default with the DEP (Data Execution Prevention) enabled actually makes full use of the Physical Address Extension anyway .

The other OS install I use /3GB /userva=2750 <-Allocation made slighly less than 3GB due to the amount of VRAM on Graphics Card. I have MS SQL 2005 and other stuff installed.

Most apps don't even allocate the full 3GB as far as I am aware. MS SQL is one of the apps that actually makes full use of the /3GB switch (hence why I use it).

Yes, the post was a little unclear. It was a rather quick post. Maybe I should have been a bit more descriptive, lol.

The whole /3GB and /PAE switches argument. Well, with non 32-bit Windows Operating Systems (64-bit) there is no reason to even get into a debate, lol.

Even with Windows Enterprise Server 2003 32-bit. It will have PAE enabled when DEP is active. Allowing up to 64 GB RAM. At my work max I think we have used for Windows Server 2003 32-bit I think is 32 GB RAM. Servers with higher end use and 64GB+ are running on 64-bit RHEL and Solaris. With those just got to worry about having the right semaphore allocation sizes (well other stuff too -> Way Off Topic).

This is getting rather off topic now.

In regards to WinUAE with TBL - Rain.

I do remember quite a few years ago running it at a pretty good speed with JIT enabled on a Windows PC with an Intel Celeron clocked @ 500 MHz + 128 MB RAM.

It played from start to finish with no glitches. I don't recall what version of WinUAE it was though.

I think it was around the WinUAE 0825 mark (possibly a bit earlier).

Well, all I can say once again. Until 68060 Cycle Exact is done at a particular clock speed. Hmm, let's say 50 Mhz or there abouts. Until this happens the timing is always going to be different.

This isn't exactly on the list of priorities for Toni or even remotely near that.

If it's a problem get a real Amiga. In this case to run this demo a Apollo 1260, Blizzard 1260 or a Blizzard PPC 1200 603e/603e+ with a 68060 clocked @ 50 MHz or higher.

I have heard even an Amiga 4000 with a CyberStorm PPC with 68060 doesn't work. Maybe others here could confirm that. Keropi? anyone?

andreas · 11 March 2010, 14:19

Quote:

Who said anything about using the switches at the same time. I have multiple OS installs. In fact in one I just use /PAE -> then again by default with the DEP (Data Execution Prevention) enabled actually makes full use of the Physical Address Extension anyway

Agree!

Quote:

Originally Posted by niobyte

Yes, the post was a little unclear. It was a rather quick post. Maybe I should have been a bit more descriptive, lol.

Definitely...

Quote:

I did perform these tests on an Intel Quad Q6600 with an NVidia GeForce 8800GT 512 MB + 4GB RAM Windows XP SP2 /3GB and /PAE switches enabled.

This bit DID make me think of a combination of both which you were actually using; and at first I was like "Oh, not AGAIN..." OK, point taken, this is gonna lead too much OT...just one thing: apparently you're really one of the guys that know their stuff well and don't fall for too many myths set up by P0W3R us3r k1dz...already most comfortable in these times (lol)

08 March 2010, 01:22	#31
andreas Zone Friend Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Germany Age: 50 Posts: 5,857	OT alert...but that's a weird combination: /3GB - increase virtual address space in kernel in order to cram more page tables in (NB: exclusively made for huge programs that can and will make use of this by enabling IMAGE_FILE_LARGE_ADDRESS_AWARE flag only) /PAE is (afaik) only for systems >= 4 GB physical RAM. Using both switches at the same time does not make much sense whatsoever. Even people who, in terms of experience in servers, have an additional 15 years 'plus' in there (compared to mine) would state that as well. YMMV, though. (As with all those WPUMs [Windows Power User Myths] there are ) Last edited by andreas; 08 March 2010 at 01:44.

10 March 2010, 19:00	#35
niobyte AMR / HOL Contributor Join Date: May 2007 Location: Perth Western Australia Posts: 171	@andreas Who said anything about using the switches at the same time. I have multiple OS installs. In fact in one I just use /PAE -> then again by default with the DEP (Data Execution Prevention) enabled actually makes full use of the Physical Address Extension anyway . The other OS install I use /3GB /userva=2750 <-Allocation made slighly less than 3GB due to the amount of VRAM on Graphics Card. I have MS SQL 2005 and other stuff installed. Most apps don't even allocate the full 3GB as far as I am aware. MS SQL is one of the apps that actually makes full use of the /3GB switch (hence why I use it). Yes, the post was a little unclear. It was a rather quick post. Maybe I should have been a bit more descriptive, lol. The whole /3GB and /PAE switches argument. Well, with non 32-bit Windows Operating Systems (64-bit) there is no reason to even get into a debate, lol. Even with Windows Enterprise Server 2003 32-bit. It will have PAE enabled when DEP is active. Allowing up to 64 GB RAM. At my work max I think we have used for Windows Server 2003 32-bit I think is 32 GB RAM. Servers with higher end use and 64GB+ are running on 64-bit RHEL and Solaris. With those just got to worry about having the right semaphore allocation sizes (well other stuff too -> Way Off Topic). This is getting rather off topic now. In regards to WinUAE with TBL - Rain. I do remember quite a few years ago running it at a pretty good speed with JIT enabled on a Windows PC with an Intel Celeron clocked @ 500 MHz + 128 MB RAM. It played from start to finish with no glitches. I don't recall what version of WinUAE it was though. I think it was around the WinUAE 0825 mark (possibly a bit earlier). Well, all I can say once again. Until 68060 Cycle Exact is done at a particular clock speed. Hmm, let's say 50 Mhz or there abouts. Until this happens the timing is always going to be different. This isn't exactly on the list of priorities for Toni or even remotely near that. If it's a problem get a real Amiga. In this case to run this demo a Apollo 1260, Blizzard 1260 or a Blizzard PPC 1200 603e/603e+ with a 68060 clocked @ 50 MHz or higher. I have heard even an Amiga 4000 with a CyberStorm PPC with 68060 doesn't work. Maybe others here could confirm that. Keropi? anyone? Last edited by niobyte; 10 March 2010 at 19:41. Reason: additional info

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09 December 2009, 18:58	#21
amiga Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Amiga_land Posts: 443	I tried it with latest Winuae beta, and it DOES work as intended !!! My configuration is: plain workbench 3.1, 68020 + FPU (fastest possible, but maintain chipset timing, without CE) + JIT + 32 Meg Fast Ram + AGA (PAL)

09 December 2009, 19:26	#24
TCD HOL/FTP busy bee Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Germany Age: 46 Posts: 31,525	What are the specs of your PC then? With fastest possible and JIT I always get that glitch here.

09 December 2009, 19:44	#26
TCD HOL/FTP busy bee Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Germany Age: 46 Posts: 31,525	Ah, that might explain it then Thanks for the info amiga.

09 December 2009, 19:54	#28
TCD HOL/FTP busy bee Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Germany Age: 46 Posts: 31,525	I did and it's far too slow then

11 December 2009, 17:44	#29
andreas Zone Friend Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Germany Age: 50 Posts: 5,857	Well, maybe there's someone reading this having a dual or quad core to hand who could test it without JIT on his rocket-fast machine? /me doesn't (still my ole AthlonXP - well it still works :P) so I would need to enable JIT too, though you guys are fully right - JIT DOES mess it up.

03 March 2010, 15:03	#30
niobyte AMR / HOL Contributor Join Date: May 2007 Location: Perth Western Australia Posts: 171	I did perform these tests on an Intel Quad Q6600 with an NVidia GeForce 8800GT 512 MB + 4GB RAM Windows XP SP2 /3GB and /PAE switches enabled. Problems are too fast CPU

08 March 2010, 09:28	#32
TCD HOL/FTP busy bee Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Germany Age: 46 Posts: 31,525	Wonder why Russ disabled comments... Anyway, they don't really hurt either (even if they don't make much sense for most apps). MS explanation of the two switches : http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system...AE/PAEmem.mspx

09 March 2010, 09:01	#33
pmc gone Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: completely gone Posts: 1,596	Aren't the problems with this demo running properly on WinUAE just down to a fundamental lack of accuracy in the emulation of > 68020 processors on the emulator...? What I mean by this is: surely if you start from a base of inaccuracy, it doesn't matter what settings you use on the emulator, or on the machine running the emulator, you'll still get an inaccurate result. In this case a too fast / slow / out of sync demo. If you get anything like an "it works OK here" result then this must just be mainly down to a luck I would've thought.

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