Monitor recommendations for a US Amiga user

brett71 · 29 October 2019, 18:52

Hi all, just thought I'd throw this out here and hopefully this is an appropriate board for the question.

I'm in the process of building up a couple of A1200's. I think most of the parts I need I can find, however, I'm not sure about finding a suitable monitor.

Ideally, I'd like to get an old Philips 1084 or 1084S. I thought those were the best ones Commodore released because they could resync nicely between NTSC and PAL without any manual adjustments. Those seem to be quite scarce on eBay these days and probably a lot have met their demise due to dead flyback transformers or busted power switches, so the supply is likely dwindling.

My second preferred option would be to use a modern monitor. I keep reading a lot about some BenQ models that supposedly can handle 15khz, but from what I've been researching, it's unclear if these monitors would work properly in North America, specifically, with power. Are there any North American users here who have one of these monitors and can say whether they work all right or not? Or if anyone can suggest an alternative that's available in the U.S.?

Thanks!

donnie · 29 October 2019, 19:27

Get a sony pvm crt. Its an broadcast monitor. I think it can handle pal.

Picture quality is much higher than old amiga monitors. And you can get them in bigger sizes like 20inch.

Probably easier to get a hold of to in the states too.

arcanist · 29 October 2019, 19:42

I've used a BenQ BL702A with an A1200 and RGB/VGA adapter from Amibay in the US. I bought it on Amazon - think it was an import from Europe. It supports 120V / 60Hz power through a standard three pin plug.

The display clock needs a bit of tweaking to eliminate faint vertical lines. Details should be somewhere in the BenQ thread. I got a perfect display with PAL and Euro72, but never quite got my preferred DblPAL or Multiscan line-free.

PAL 50 Hz modes were smooth and looked good for an old LCD. Colors and response time are not going to be as good as a CRT, but it's been good enough for me.

th4t1guy · 29 October 2019, 19:50

I was able to find an older 4:3 lcd NEC monitor that works at a local electronics recycling store. I paid around $50 for it. However, it has issues displaying PAL, and theres some odd artifacts when scrolling.

I think you'd be better off buying a converter and outputting to a normal hdtv/hdmi monitor, depending on what you are looking to use it for. I haven't used any, but going by existing threads here, it seems the best quality one (and priciest) is OSSC.
Some people report good results using SCART to HDMI converter (you'd just need RGB to SCART cable as well), and if you want to do some DIY, there's a board called GBS-8200 (threads on here as well about that), but quality may be hit n miss on that one.

brett71 · 29 October 2019, 19:53

How did it do with NTSC screenmodes?

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanist

I've used a BenQ BL702A with an A1200 and RGB/VGA adapter from Amibay in the US. I bought it on Amazon - think it was an import from Europe. It supports 120V / 60Hz power through a standard three pin plug.

The display clock needs a bit of tweaking to eliminate faint vertical lines. Details should be somewhere in the BenQ thread. I got a perfect display with PAL and Euro72, but never quite got my preferred DblPAL or Multiscan line-free.

PAL 50 Hz modes were smooth and looked good for an old LCD. Colors and response time are not going to be as good as a CRT, but it's been good enough for me.

arcanist · 29 October 2019, 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by brett71

How did it do with NTSC screenmodes?

They work fine, though I didn't check for faint vertical lines closely. I prefer 320/640x256 resolution so I run Workbench and games in PAL, even though it's a NTSC Amiga.

brett71 · 29 October 2019, 21:00

OK, I am mainly concerned about the performance when playing games, both NTSC and PAL as I have a mix. For Workbench stuff, I'm not too picky about NTSC vs. PAL, although if I can get some additional screenmodes to choose from, that would be nice too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanist

They work fine, though I didn't check for faint vertical lines closely. I prefer 320/640x256 resolution so I run Workbench and games in PAL, even though it's a NTSC Amiga.

brett71 · 29 October 2019, 21:01

Do you know of any model numbers to look for? What sort of connection between the Amiga's 23-pin port and one of these Sony monitors would I need, as far as any cabling or adapters needed?

Quote:

Originally Posted by donnie

Get a sony pvm crt. Its an broadcast monitor. I think it can handle pal.

Picture quality is much higher than old amiga monitors. And you can get them in bigger sizes like 20inch.

Probably easier to get a hold of to in the states too.

clenched · 29 October 2019, 21:28

A homemade adapter and stock monitor cable can be used. The schematic eludes me at the moment.

mintsauce82 · 29 October 2019, 23:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by donnie

Get a sony pvm crt. Its an broadcast monitor. I think it can handle pal.

Picture quality is much higher than old amiga monitors. And you can get them in bigger sizes like 20inch.

Probably easier to get a hold of to in the states too.

I don't disagree, but OP should be aware of the (ridiculous) prices these things go for now. It's definitely going to be way easier to get hold of a compatible LCD or a Commodore monitor.

Damion · 30 October 2019, 17:19

How about something like the ScanPlus AGA:

http://irixlabs.com/scanplusaga

An older CRT intended for PC use will be much less expensive and easier to obtain than a PVM (although, the latter are of course are really nice for gaming). In addition, "laced" modes will look much better. 50Hz flicker on these monitors can cause a bit of eyestrain after a while, but you'll get the "CRT experience" with smooth scrolling and no lag/smearing.

Another option would be an Indivision, where you can program a "very close" 50Hz mode for decent scrolling, and anything which accepts HDMI should display OK.

Hewitson · 30 October 2019, 20:40

I use a 68cm Sony Trinitron Wega CRT. A brilliant monitor for Amiga, C64 and all other retro machines.

Forget about LCD's and Commodore monitors. Expensive options that provide a poor result.

fxgogo · 31 October 2019, 00:46

I have an Philips 8833 mkII on the blink, and as much as I love it, it is just going to get harder and harder to keep it alive. I am now looking into fast flat panels.

What we really need is a grass roots resurgence of a tube based display. Digital Foundry did a great piece on Youtube, on how we have forgotten how good CRT's were. They put some modern games on them and were astounded at the results.

Damion · 31 October 2019, 03:43

I agree, I wouldn't go to extreme lengths for a 1084. In fact, the reality is that just like LCD, CRT had its own disadvantages, and (as now) the market was flooded with poor quality displays. I have one (seemingly rare) 1084 with a Japanese (Orion) tube, and it's decent. The rest are Korean, and are rather average.

It's tough to find a suitable LCD. I have a few older Eizo "gaming" panels which are pretty nice via an Indivision and HDMI, low lag and reasonably responsive. (An analog signal to any LCD will of course be sub-optimal.) The best (static) image quality I've observed was an A1200 connected to a 55" LG OLED--loaded up the "Wild" slideshow, and it was mind blowing... absolutely stunning. (Sadly, I haven't been able to program the Indivision for perfect scrolling, so no "holy grail" just yet.)

Anyway, I feel the topic is far too nuanced for a militant "CRT vs LCD" frame of reference...

Regarding 31kHz+ "PC" CRTs for use with a scandoubler: Don't overlook something with a Mitsubishi Diamondtron tube--these are fantastic, at least as good as a Trinitron. Many Iiyama Monitors had them, which I believe were more popular in Europe. (I have one I bought NOS many years ago for peanuts when CRTs were almost worthless... now I wish I had bought several!)

Jope · 31 October 2019, 07:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damion

I agree, I wouldn't go to extreme lengths for a 1084. In fact, the reality is that just like LCD, CRT had its own disadvantages, and (as now) the market was flooded with poor quality displays. I have one (seemingly rare) 1084 with a Japanese (Orion) tube, and it's decent. The rest are Korean, and are rather average.

On our side of the Atlantic, the majority of 1084s are made by Philips with a Philips tube. The image quality is totally fine, it's an M series tube with a finer dot pitch than TVs.

Hewitson · 31 October 2019, 08:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jope

On our side of the Atlantic, the majority of 1084s are made by Philips with a Philips tube. The image quality is totally fine, it's an M series tube with a finer dot pitch than TVs.

The image quality is fine. But you might need a pair of binoculars to see the minute screen.

aeberbach · 31 October 2019, 10:39

Lenovo T22i is a current monitor, you can order it delivered overnight and return it if you don’t like it. Works great on my A1200 with an unbuffered physical adapter. Most modes!

th4t1guy · 31 October 2019, 17:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damion

Anyway, I feel the topic is far too nuanced for a militant "CRT vs LCD" frame of reference...

Pretty much this. I recommend going the adapter/converter route as finding a suitable lcd or crt here in the US seems to be mostly luck.

29 October 2019, 18:52	#1
brett71 Registered User Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ames, IA, USA Posts: 521	Monitor recommendations for a US Amiga user Hi all, just thought I'd throw this out here and hopefully this is an appropriate board for the question. I'm in the process of building up a couple of A1200's. I think most of the parts I need I can find, however, I'm not sure about finding a suitable monitor. Ideally, I'd like to get an old Philips 1084 or 1084S. I thought those were the best ones Commodore released because they could resync nicely between NTSC and PAL without any manual adjustments. Those seem to be quite scarce on eBay these days and probably a lot have met their demise due to dead flyback transformers or busted power switches, so the supply is likely dwindling. My second preferred option would be to use a modern monitor. I keep reading a lot about some BenQ models that supposedly can handle 15khz, but from what I've been researching, it's unclear if these monitors would work properly in North America, specifically, with power. Are there any North American users here who have one of these monitors and can say whether they work all right or not? Or if anyone can suggest an alternative that's available in the U.S.? Thanks!

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29 October 2019, 19:27	#2
donnie Registered User Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: sthlm Posts: 226	Get a sony pvm crt. Its an broadcast monitor. I think it can handle pal. Picture quality is much higher than old amiga monitors. And you can get them in bigger sizes like 20inch. Probably easier to get a hold of to in the states too.

29 October 2019, 19:42	#3
arcanist Registered User Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: Austin, TX Age: 41 Posts: 406	I've used a BenQ BL702A with an A1200 and RGB/VGA adapter from Amibay in the US. I bought it on Amazon - think it was an import from Europe. It supports 120V / 60Hz power through a standard three pin plug. The display clock needs a bit of tweaking to eliminate faint vertical lines. Details should be somewhere in the BenQ thread. I got a perfect display with PAL and Euro72, but never quite got my preferred DblPAL or Multiscan line-free. PAL 50 Hz modes were smooth and looked good for an old LCD. Colors and response time are not going to be as good as a CRT, but it's been good enough for me.

29 October 2019, 19:50	#4
th4t1guy Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Kansas City, MO, USA Posts: 683	I was able to find an older 4:3 lcd NEC monitor that works at a local electronics recycling store. I paid around $50 for it. However, it has issues displaying PAL, and theres some odd artifacts when scrolling. I think you'd be better off buying a converter and outputting to a normal hdtv/hdmi monitor, depending on what you are looking to use it for. I haven't used any, but going by existing threads here, it seems the best quality one (and priciest) is OSSC. Some people report good results using SCART to HDMI converter (you'd just need RGB to SCART cable as well), and if you want to do some DIY, there's a board called GBS-8200 (threads on here as well about that), but quality may be hit n miss on that one.

29 October 2019, 21:28	#9
clenched Registered User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Gainesville U.S.A. Posts: 771	A homemade adapter and stock monitor cable can be used. The schematic eludes me at the moment.

30 October 2019, 17:19	#11
Damion Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: US Posts: 315	How about something like the ScanPlus AGA: http://irixlabs.com/scanplusaga An older CRT intended for PC use will be much less expensive and easier to obtain than a PVM (although, the latter are of course are really nice for gaming). In addition, "laced" modes will look much better. 50Hz flicker on these monitors can cause a bit of eyestrain after a while, but you'll get the "CRT experience" with smooth scrolling and no lag/smearing. Another option would be an Indivision, where you can program a "very close" 50Hz mode for decent scrolling, and anything which accepts HDMI should display OK.

30 October 2019, 20:40	#12
Hewitson Registered User Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Age: 41 Posts: 3,773	I use a 68cm Sony Trinitron Wega CRT. A brilliant monitor for Amiga, C64 and all other retro machines. Forget about LCD's and Commodore monitors. Expensive options that provide a poor result.

31 October 2019, 00:46	#13
fxgogo Also known as GarethQ Join Date: May 2019 Location: Twickenham / U.K. Posts: 718	I have an Philips 8833 mkII on the blink, and as much as I love it, it is just going to get harder and harder to keep it alive. I am now looking into fast flat panels. What we really need is a grass roots resurgence of a tube based display. Digital Foundry did a great piece on Youtube, on how we have forgotten how good CRT's were. They put some modern games on them and were astounded at the results.

31 October 2019, 03:43	#14
Damion Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: US Posts: 315	I agree, I wouldn't go to extreme lengths for a 1084. In fact, the reality is that just like LCD, CRT had its own disadvantages, and (as now) the market was flooded with poor quality displays. I have one (seemingly rare) 1084 with a Japanese (Orion) tube, and it's decent. The rest are Korean, and are rather average. It's tough to find a suitable LCD. I have a few older Eizo "gaming" panels which are pretty nice via an Indivision and HDMI, low lag and reasonably responsive. (An analog signal to any LCD will of course be sub-optimal.) The best (static) image quality I've observed was an A1200 connected to a 55" LG OLED--loaded up the "Wild" slideshow, and it was mind blowing... absolutely stunning. (Sadly, I haven't been able to program the Indivision for perfect scrolling, so no "holy grail" just yet.) Anyway, I feel the topic is far too nuanced for a militant "CRT vs LCD" frame of reference... Regarding 31kHz+ "PC" CRTs for use with a scandoubler: Don't overlook something with a Mitsubishi Diamondtron tube--these are fantastic, at least as good as a Trinitron. Many Iiyama Monitors had them, which I believe were more popular in Europe. (I have one I bought NOS many years ago for peanuts when CRTs were almost worthless... now I wish I had bought several!)

31 October 2019, 10:39	#17
aeberbach Registered User Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 421	Lenovo T22i is a current monitor, you can order it delivered overnight and return it if you don’t like it. Works great on my A1200 with an unbuffered physical adapter. Most modes!

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