Slow AGA games played from HD

[AndersHP]

Why is it, that AGA-game versions sometimes seem less attractive than their corresponding OCS versions, due to low framerates when run off the HD?

Just tried comparing The Chaos Engine and The Chaos Engine AGA - and even though the AGA version has a bit nicer colors, the framerate drops rediculously at times.. The OCS version is much more stable.. The CD32 version runs from the fastram, and is much better, but this isn't the only example.

The same happens with Brutal Football AGA compared to the OCS version - the AGA/CD32 version is completely unplayable on my A1200 68030 16MB...

How come? My setup should be able to play these games according to the WHDLoad support page...?

[Jimbo]

Hmm I have never seen this. Maybe your HD is on its way out. I have never seen slow downs. Also do you have preload set?

[alexh]

I thought WHDLoad should "preload" automatically if it finds enough RAM?

[AndersHP]

My HD is a brand new 2GB CF...
I have not set any preload (should I?), but have a 16MB accelerator and 2MB chipmem...

[Jimbo]

Ah cf cards, I have never used one as a HD but you need to set the right transfer/buffer settings? Someone else will have to step in and check you have the right settings.

[Fabie]

Originally Posted by AndersHP

Why is it, that AGA-game versions sometimes seem less attractive than their corresponding OCS versions, due to low framerates when run off the HD?

Just tried comparing The Chaos Engine and The Chaos Engine AGA - and even though the AGA version has a bit nicer colors, the framerate drops rediculously at times.. The OCS version is much more stable.. The CD32 version runs from the fastram, and is much better, but this isn't the only example.

The same happens with Brutal Football AGA compared to the OCS version - the AGA/CD32 version is completely unplayable on my A1200 68030 16MB...

How come? My setup should be able to play these games according to the WHDLoad support page...?

some whdload installed games slow down framerate
cases like zool 2,deepcore and chaos engine comes to my mind
play the game from floppy and you will see better framerate
anyways I think that in the particular case of chaos engine....the OCS version is faster cause it works in 32 colors while the AGA version should run in 256
less colors = fast amiga chips
also the bitmap brother'games are well know to make games with bad framerate or bad scrolling like Gods or Magic Pockets

Here in EAB always is discussion about the bad scrolling of the game Gods

[Amiga1992]

Yeah I noticed this only now, specially with Zool 2, it's ridiculous!
But I thought it had to do with my new scandoubler. Could this be possible?
I also noticed tearing on the scrolling of Disposable Hero ECS WHDLoad.
Alfred Chicken some times slows down on scrolling.

Is it a WHDLoad thing, is it my scandoubler, is it the FPU?

[TCD]

Hardly the scandoubler, as long as it isn't jerky as hell. Maybe the slave is slowed down too much to make it run okay on faster CPUs? Just a thought.

[Bamiga2002]

This is another reason i prefer Chaos Engine ECS over the AGA version (besides the uglier colors). Many times ECS games tend to be faster compared to AGA under WHDLoad.

[Jimbo]

I have never seen this. I never saw this on my old 8 meg fastram expansion before the 1230 either. As I always try AGA versions first.

[Fabie]

Originally Posted by Akira

Yeah I noticed this only now, specially with Zool 2, it's ridiculous!
But I thought it had to do with my new scandoubler. Could this be possible?
I also noticed tearing on the scrolling of Disposable Hero ECS WHDLoad.
Alfred Chicken some times slows down on scrolling.

Is it a WHDLoad thing, is it my scandoubler, is it the FPU?

it is whdload
play that games from floppy...the difference is huge

[Jimbo]

Is this on a real Amiga?

[Anakirob]

Brutal Sports Football AGA runs ridiculously slow here too. A1200+030+32Mb fast IDE HD.

[TCD]

If I select cycle exact for 020 emulation in WinUAE, I get the same result. Slow motion gameplay... Same setting with the disk version works fine.

[Anakirob]

Although I should note that the CD32 version does not have this problem.

[jotd]

There's an issue with games running from chipmem with whdload on some machines (endless bugreports for SWOS WHDload)

When game code is relocated to fast memory, the game is faster than from floppy. The problem is that sometimes the executable uses explicitly MEMF_CHIP for all hunks. This is rather usual in CD32 games (Some Golf game I forgot the name, Body Blows, Chaos Engine).

In that case, the solution is 1) to hack the LoadSeg() so all hunks are loaded in fast and 2) track down the relocs that require chip ram (sprites, bobs, sounds) and move them back to chip. Not trivial & requires disassembling / finding all the relocs of the exe, but did that for the three games mentioned above and the speed difference is huge (loading and during gameplay).
WHDLoad MMU/CHK features help because it tells you when the game tries to blit from fastmem: you know when you forgot something.
It is really easier for games using AmigaDOS exes. For trackloading games it's a lot harder because there are no relocs.

[Adropac2]

Hmm yes i was sure Zool2 wasn't plagued by slow down the moment you see a few sprites come onto screen.Had a 68030 back in 95 and now again an apollo which gave much different results than when i used to run from floppy

Mind you can't exactly complain given what Whdload allows us to do now but i guess some might be truly horrified to see Zool2 running like this- it was never a Sonic or Mario to begin with but it was damn sight smoother than it currently is this way.Again not moaning

[AndersHP]

Originally Posted by jotd

There's an issue with games running from chipmem with whdload on some machines (endless bugreports for SWOS WHDload)

When game code is relocated to fast memory, the game is faster than from floppy. The problem is that sometimes the executable uses explicitly MEMF_CHIP for all hunks. This is rather usual in CD32 games (Some Golf game I forgot the name, Body Blows, Chaos Engine).

In that case, the solution is 1) to hack the LoadSeg() so all hunks are loaded in fast and 2) track down the relocs that require chip ram (sprites, bobs, sounds) and move them back to chip. Not trivial & requires disassembling / finding all the relocs of the exe, but did that for the three games mentioned above and the speed difference is huge (loading and during gameplay).
WHDLoad MMU/CHK features help because it tells you when the game tries to blit from fastmem: you know when you forgot something.
It is really easier for games using AmigaDOS exes. For trackloading games it's a lot harder because there are no relocs.

Sounds interesting..
But I doesn't quite understand how to do it.
Can you explain it in a step-by-step manner?
How to edit what, and what to change?

I have noticed almost 50-70% of my Amiga games run slower from HD than on floppy.. I'd like to change this... And not by playing from floppy, seems kind of a step backwards..

[Retro1234]

Originally Posted by AndersHP

I have noticed almost 50-70% of my Amiga games run slower from HD than on floppy.. I'd like to change this... And not by playing from floppy, seems kind of a step backwards..

I think this is a serious exaggeration, and not a problem many have encountered.

[AndersHP]

Originally Posted by Boo Boo

I think this is a serious exaggeration, and not a problem many have encountered.

I have only encountered a few games with frameratedrops that made the games unplayable, yes..

But on my machine the framerate drops in almost every game, they are not unplayable, but it is noticeable. If I can alter this, it would be very welcomed..