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Old 06 November 2020, 09:17   #41
chip
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You are right, emulation is broader and indeed i do much more things than only see Amiga demos

I also see games for listening to the musics, i like to rip modules, i play the modules with EaglePlayer, i rip intros from NDOS disks with a bit of Assembly skills and perhaps others things i don't remember now

All of this only under emulation

But i am not "against" real hardware, that's will be stupid

As you pointed out i don't have the possibility to experience that, no friends with Amiga machines sorry

But i repeat the main point of my reasoning, nothing is "better", emulation and real thing are just two "different" ways to do the same hobby

About nostalgia, well, that's subjective perhaps

For me it's not the nostalgia the main reason i use the emulator, but just the pleasure of the graphics and sound i can experience

In other words, the fun i can get from this cheap hobby
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Old 06 November 2020, 12:09   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chip View Post
But i repeat the main point of my reasoning, nothing is "better", emulation and real thing are just two "different" ways to do the same hobby
Not every platform has a talented coder such as Toni to offer their fans a constantly updated Windows emulator. Also, some Amigans use their machine to play old school fps or space sim such as Wing Commander II or Hexen with higher framerate (relatively speaking), the more powerful the CPU to emulate, the more difficult it gets to have perfect accuracy I think. If you were into AGA and more advanced Amiga demos (personally, I think they look too much like PC demos, with a few exceptions), maybe you would be more inclined to run them of an actual machine, just saying. I don't have an Amstrad CPC at my place but even if I could reproduce on screen the exact look of my favorite games on that platform, I would say the difference in terms of keyboard layout and design hampers the experience somehow.
Maybe it's not a matter of which one is better intrinsically, but a matter of trying to reproduce "the way it was meant to be played initially" with a few arrangements with respect to a revered past (bigger CRT, warp mode etc.), even if that sounds a bit cliché.
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Old 06 November 2020, 12:37   #43
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He he it's a neverending story

It's true also that not all are interested in re-experience the past

Why should i emulate the CPC if i never owned it in the past ?

In my case, what attracts me, is the number of games / demos i can explore thanks to the emulation

But i understand your point of view .... hardware itself for you it's a part of the whole experience

For me that's not important .... as simple as that
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Old 06 November 2020, 12:41   #44
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Why should i emulate the CPC if i never owned it in the past ?
To play Pinball Dreams/Shadows of Sergoth/Baba's Palace/Orion Prime/BB4CPC/etc and be completely amazed.
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Old 06 November 2020, 12:43   #45
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To get what i can get from that machine
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Old 06 November 2020, 12:59   #46
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If you were into AGA and more advanced Amiga demos (personally, I think they look too much like PC demos, with a few exceptions), maybe you would be more inclined to run them of an actual machine, just saying.
I am more into the Demoscene than even Chip is, and I play all of the high-end demos I can, because it reminds me that the Amiga is just as capable of anything that MS-DOS demos can do. Emulation allows me to run the equivalent of many machines all in one program and one place. And to be honest, AGA is easily the equivalent of VGA and even many parts of SVGA, such as HAM effects in hi-res, and many demos are actual HAM animations with 3D texture-mapped objects, images, effects, etc. HAM has been a godsend for the Amiga demoscene - who cares if the display info has to be dumped frame-by-frame into a HAM buffer with c2p?

Quote:
I don't have an Amstrad CPC at my place but even if I could reproduce on screen the exact look of my favorite games on that platform, I would say the difference in terms of keyboard layout and design hampers the experience somehow.
I've emulated that platform in the past because I always liked the lo-res multicolour graphics, but that damned sound chip sounds worse than even the Speccy, and it's in stereo, too! Stereo, for three channels, one of them on both sides!

Quote:
Maybe it's not a matter of which one is better intrinsically, but a matter of trying to reproduce "the way it was meant to be played initially" with a few arrangements with respect to a revered past (bigger CRT, warp mode etc.), even if that sounds a bit cliché.
The only modifications I make to my Amiga emulation is to 50% mix the stereo sides (cos of the sheer number of problems I had listening to stereo Amiga music via earphones back in the day), and having no filtering whatsoever for the display, it is pure pixels, no phosphor dots, scanlines, warped screens or any of that nonsense.
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Old 07 November 2020, 15:04   #47
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With real hardware you get exactly what you see and hear as intended by the machine, with emulation there's always a nagging doubt that any perceived anomaly can be attributed to a bug in the emulated system.

Despite amazing endeavours such as WinUAE to reproduce amazing accuracy you still have the PC side of things which can cause issues, CPU, operating system, drivers and sound hardware all introducing potential issues.. Having said all that, I'm more than happy with the current state of emulation and although it can never truly give that 100% authentic feel, it comes pretty damn close, along with the pure convenience it brings.
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Old 13 November 2020, 04:09   #48
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Well, I am sure you're well aware a PC fitted with 15 Khz enabled Radeon can serve as a basis for a mamebox. I don't think any of these boxes scrutinized when emulating a classic arcade game would differ all that much from another one fitted with different components. Why ? Because most classic arcade games emulated through mame solely rely on the CPU.
Gaming on the PC for years and years had us assuming that using a less powerful machine would inevitably lead to lower a demanding game graphics options. Emulation realm is somehow different I believe, any decent machine can run mame and also a few other emulators consistently. What's more, disconnect said machine from the Internet e.q. assuming you have no use for updates and such, and you won't need an antivirus running in the background, which is a real plus.
So to sum it up, a machine fitted with CPU which speed equals of exceeds 3 Ghz, no or very limited Internet access, stripping most of what may hog the memory at some point, good old Windows XP as the OS of reference, all of that combined allows for some pretty interesting emulation box for all of the emulators out there not heavily relying on the GPU (icing of the cake : Add in the mix some program which will defrag in the background when no user input is detected).
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Old 13 November 2020, 07:48   #49
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Why would you have a defragger running in the background?

And an antivirus, too? I've never used antivirus on my PC, I'm just careful what links I click on. Unless you're suggesting that MAMEland is filled with viruses and malware? In that case, I'd better avoid it and be safe.
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Old 13 November 2020, 07:58   #50
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No antivirus

That's a risk !
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Old 13 November 2020, 14:30   #51
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I was addressing lordofchaos concern with "the PC side of things". On the real hardware, the processor and other chips won't waste time (well, cycles) to monitor the system for malware. To minimize potential unwanted side effects (e.q. micro stuttering during a game), the idea is to discard / remove every service, software that might come in the way. The defrag bit is to keep the partitions tidy and the experience consistent with each passing day. The author of the French mamebox project I deal with has gathered 80+ GB of files, fragmentation will occur at some point.
@chip
that's assuming one plays retro games with the network disconnected of course (e.q. some like their mame PC embedded in a cabinet, in that case, the machine is solely used for MAME and its derivatives). Some mame fans even use some special software to start the machine with mame frontend so that the desktop is completely covered up. Their project consists in using their machine for mame / RetroArch and nothing else, if that makes sense.
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Old 14 November 2020, 13:21   #52
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Another piece of nostalgia that was in the EAB news a few months ago is AIAB, Amiga in a Box. As you all know, the project was revived in 2012 with a few modifications (minus the copyrighted files and the game packs, mostly). Unfortunately, I wasn't around when JayBee was active but, after seeing a couple of YT videos made by a French dude, it's easy to see why people loved it. I think its popularity (there are other packages of course, AmigaSYS etc.) stems from its unhesitant "more bang for your buck" approach.
I don't think the workbench he assembled was especially lightweight (unlike AmigaSYS, it was targeted at emulation users if I am not mistaken) but it was a great recipient for gettings your hands dirty with Amiga gaming from a PC running WinUAE, and that's what newcomers / outsiders are hoping for I believe, access to action games at your fingertip, on top of a stylized WB in minutes, and minimal fussing around (concerns about faithful audio reproduction, cycle exact mode benefits etc. may be envisioned at another time). I am not saying game packs and such should be brought back, but in its current state AIAB may appear less appealing because of these (necessary) modifications.

Last edited by SquawkBox; 15 November 2020 at 15:43.
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Old 14 November 2020, 20:22   #53
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Retrogaming is a software nostalgia, so games, application, diskmag, etc. You run a software don't watch or you didn't watch hardware to reach your goal.
Retrocomputing is hardware nostalgia and of course is better to use real hardware to returning at the era you buy your first computers/consoles
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Old 02 January 2021, 12:33   #54
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Retrogaming, in my opinion, is really nostalgia for a time lost that wont come back ever. In our youth.

Its focusing on videogames is because we were children in an epoch where videogames where children's companion.
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Old 11 January 2021, 01:05   #55
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For me Nostalgia is using the original hardware, i use both WinUae and Raspberry Pie although they are fun and i can get to play games and other stuff, nothing beats firing up my Amiga's or C64's and the like (and yes even when they don't fire up and you spend half a day try to fix it).
That is what takes my back to my youth.
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