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Old 10 October 2020, 11:14   #21
Foebane
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Originally Posted by UberFreak View Post
For me its the original hardware or nothing, the feelings it brings back cannot be created with emulation.
A lot of us do NOT have the choice:

1. We don't have the money needed
2. We don't have the physical space to set it up
3. Monitors for the systems are an extra cost
4. Electronics maintenance appears to be necessary, some of us are squeamish about that
5. Maybe more than one system by any company is needed for certain software which will need it
6. More powerful hardware may be rare and expensive

See? Really impractical.

Emulation (which is good as the real thing) has none of these issues.
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Old 10 October 2020, 11:39   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foebane View Post
A lot of us do NOT have the choice:

1. We don't have the money needed
2. We don't have the physical space to set it up
3. Monitors for the systems are an extra cost
4. Electronics maintenance appears to be necessary, some of us are squeamish about that
5. Maybe more than one system by any company is needed for certain software which will need it
6. More powerful hardware may be rare and expensive

See? Really impractical.

Emulation (which is good as the real thing) has none of these issues.
Agreed on all points. Me saying I'd gladly pay $$$ for a real A1200 with a Warp 1260 is a long way from actually being able to afford one.
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Old 10 October 2020, 13:44   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foebane View Post
A lot of us do NOT have the choice:

1. We don't have the money needed
2. We don't have the physical space to set it up
3. Monitors for the systems are an extra cost
4. Electronics maintenance appears to be necessary, some of us are squeamish about that
5. Maybe more than one system by any company is needed for certain software which will need it
6. More powerful hardware may be rare and expensive
All these are true, but it's not even the main point. Feelings are in your mind and so are subjective. There are no set in stone rules in regard to this topic. If somebody gets the retro feels from emulation (as many do) then that's that.

The desk/wardrobe next to where I'm sitting now is full of original hardware & CRT TVs. I love them to bits, but sometimes when I go travelling I use emulators/RPi/MiSTer too, or even at home as well because in some situations it's more convenient. If I set my mind to it these can be as retro as my OG HW. Go on, sue me
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Old 10 October 2020, 19:57   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foebane View Post
A lot of us do NOT have the choice:

1. We don't have the money needed
2. We don't have the physical space to set it up
3. Monitors for the systems are an extra cost
4. Electronics maintenance appears to be necessary, some of us are squeamish about that
5. Maybe more than one system by any company is needed for certain software which will need it
6. More powerful hardware may be rare and expensive

See? Really impractical.

Emulation (which is good as the real thing) has none of these issues.
It's true, even a lowly 500 is getting expensive now.

I use emulation too, although makes you wonder how longer the real hardware will keep going. Nothing is forever
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Old 10 October 2020, 20:03   #25
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And you must consider the fact that the emulated systems can be more than one !
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Old 10 October 2020, 21:19   #26
Weaselrama
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And you must consider the fact that the emulated systems can be more than one !
Very true! The only frustrating aspect is having to listen to those diehards in the community who insist emulation will never be as "good" or as "valid" as real hardware. Someday those diehards won't be able to get the parts they need and they'll either rely on emulation or they will no longer participate in the hobby I suppose. It's a pity we see those kinds of divisions in the Amiga community where people create an artificial "caste" system where some members are "better" or "more pure" than others.
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Old 10 October 2020, 22:18   #27
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People keep telling me on YouTube that they're using real hardware and I don't know how to react. How does this benefit the viewer?
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Old 10 October 2020, 22:55   #28
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Originally Posted by dreamkatcha View Post
People keep telling me on YouTube that they're using real hardware and I don't know how to react. How does this benefit the viewer?
Indeed, most of the Amiga demos I have in my collection have YouTube videos, and almost all of them use real hardware and are horribly lo-res and blurry and just plain awful from the varying quality of the capture hardware used. So I gave up with videos of real hardware and just used emulation "live" instead, with crisp sharp consistent visuals with 99.9% of the accuracy.
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Old 11 October 2020, 08:13   #29
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Real hardware (the feel of a keyboard, power lights, different sounds the frame and components make, feel of a clunky mouse and a joystic, smell of the plastic, especially when the a/c adapter heats up) is actually the only part of computer nostalgia that really holds up to one's memories and expectations.

It's mostly the games and other software that tend to be the disappointing part of nostalgia, and rarely as slick as you recalled. If you have dear memories of a game you haven't played in 30 years, it's usually better to not try out the game as it tends to rapidly burst that rose-tinted bubble.

But those few exceptional games you find and play even for few hours still make it all worth the while.
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Old 11 October 2020, 08:54   #30
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Real hardware is actually the only part i can really don't care

Important for me are all the demos and games i can try THANKS to the emulation

And nostalgia is not so important too .... why i use computers or consoles i never owned in the past ?
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Old 30 October 2020, 20:26   #31
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Of course the real hardware feels different, at least for me. It was my childhood being in front of that beige keyboard for hours with a Genesis controller connected (Worked really well actually) and in hand.

I also know that emulation is not 100% perfect, however for my nostalgia it's close enough for me to enjoy the games I played growing up. I believe I still have my A500 somewhere, but don't have any disks for it anymore and I physically cannot stand being around a CRT monitor as the audio squeal of the refresh gives me a headache now, so emulation is the best option for me, unless I wanted to get the original hardware working with a 4:3 LCD screen.

Original Hardware is always the top way to experience things, but the price, maintenance, and space needed for the hardware are my limitations just for the hardware itself. Software is another can of worms as price of each game, space, and "Will the disk actually work?" is a legit concern now because many Amiga disks are dead from age/rot.
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Old 03 November 2020, 20:46   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamkatcha View Post
People keep telling me on YouTube that they're using real hardware and I don't know how to react. How does this benefit the viewer?
These videos are worth watching IMHO to find additional games to play on various platforms. Videos of emulated games may have timing issues, or sometimes the author add filters or boosts the CPU to get better framerate.
Personally, I watched an awful lot of PS1 "10 minutes gameplay" made on actual hardware (with a few exceptions). Most of the times, 10 minutes is all I need to make up my mind about a game, unless it's a J-RPG or a complex simulation.
Youtube meddles with source video during upload (some re-encoding takes place, I am simplifying a bit), so your best bet is to grab the video from a trusted source when available such as Recorded Amiga Games.

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Old 05 November 2020, 02:31   #33
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Filling gaps in collections can be an expensive process. Difficult to assess without studying the rarity of the product. Also buyers are interested in more than the disks. Often I already have the disks and pay loads just to get a mint box with the contents. Some collectors will pay a tidy price just to get the Hero Turtles balloon they don't have. Collecting is what collecting is.

The emulator is OK for taking screen shots. I just press the PrtScn. Thats all its good for really. It doesn't help me otherwise. Last few days I have been creating my own 1.3 Workbench disks from old Amiga Computing disks from 1990-92. So I have used a 500Plus with a ROM switcher and have had the external drive set up and had to use the Shell for copying files and constructing my own boot disk and Workbench. Its a real challenge but a lot of fun.

Problem with the Emulator is that it can do some things really well but it doesn't road handle like an Amiga. It can't brake drift into the bends. It doesn't accelerate out on the straight or need the pit calls and emergency repairs. When you drive an Amiga you know you are at the wheels of a real machine. The emulator doesn't handle the same way. You can fool the emulator, or should I say it fools you... but the real Amiga is just what it is. Nobodies fool. The emulator has its uses, but its no Amiga.

But you already knew that. Like the emulator. Love the Amiga.
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Old 05 November 2020, 06:53   #34
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Problem with the Emulator is that it can do some things really well but it doesn't road handle like an Amiga. It can't brake drift into the bends. It doesn't accelerate out on the straight or need the pit calls and emergency repairs. When you drive an Amiga you know you are at the wheels of a real machine. The emulator doesn't handle the same way. You can fool the emulator, or should I say it fools you... but the real Amiga is just what it is. Nobodies fool. The emulator has its uses, but its no Amiga.
Rubbish. There's no difference that I've noticed, except improved visuals. No damned flicker for one thing.
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Old 05 November 2020, 13:19   #35
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I can't live without my automated disk swapper and save states. If I'd want to use a real Amiga, it's purely for nostalgia reasons and not because it is supposedly better. For me it really isn't, at least not for middle aged Gimby. I'm sure 10 year old Gimby would disagree with me.
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Old 05 November 2020, 14:31   #36
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As usual for the real thing vs emulation issue is just a question of taste i guess

I use WinUAE since 2002 and the fact that it loads nearly everything is enough for not considering the real hardware

But real hardware would be good for other reasons .... for example preservation purposes

So, it really depends .... nothing is better
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Old 05 November 2020, 14:39   #37
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For me, the best "nostalgia" experience is a mix between real hardware and being able to easily swap games (reduced load time is a plus, but not that important). Two examples come to mind : Firstly, PS2's being able to play many PS1 games whether through POPS or through hardware emulation, secondly, everdrive's, so that one can fit an old Sega or big N console with a SD card filled with roms. I am well aware Everdrive's are rather expensive especially original ones, but worth the expense if you're not into collecting originals.
For me, that's the near perfect nostalgia fix formula, no erratic optical lens reading performance, no silly blowing on cartridges contacts (that's part of nostalgia to some though), snappy GUI for choosing desired game so on so forth, yet the game plays at the exact right speed, no lag, no artifacts, smooth scrolling all the way.

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Old 05 November 2020, 16:14   #38
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Nostalgia can only be created by the real hardware which you use in the same way as you did many decades ago.

Emulation is a powerful tool for exploring and testing many different configurations. And it makes development, debugging and testing of new software so much easier. But it's just a tool.

For me a system which only lives in emulation is dead. I (and probably many other developers) would see no reason to develop new software for it. When I cannot touch, feel, hear and use my real Amiga, then nothing is left to care for.
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Old 05 November 2020, 16:20   #39
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I must disagree, emulation is "another" way to live things

Why real hardware should be better ?

Thanks to emulation i nowadays discovered the demo scene world which i completely missed in the past, just for example

And i am not interested in the nostalgia .... just the fun !
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Old 06 November 2020, 04:08   #40
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chip, what if you had the opportunity to go on discovering the demoscene partly through emulation at your place, partly through the machine of someone you may pay a visit to. Amiga shouldn't be about hunting expensive hardware agreed, but some Amigans with deep pockets (or especially frugal) did make the jump. I assume there must be some Amiga related events in Italy where these proud owners bring their beefed up machines and meet for a couple of days, like in the good old days (maybe something to consider once covid is over). Hence, while I am well aware nostalgia sometimes tend to cloud the judgement, no one is trying to convince you here. Simply put, we think you owe it to yourself to grab the opportunity to maybe enjoy your favorite hobby in a different manner.
It's good practice to experience things yourself, even when you're on a budget IMHO, then you can make an informed decision, e.q. Ok, just what I thought, I am better off emulating such system. But come on, emulation is broader than just running Amiga demos on a PC (nothing wrong with that, don't get me wrong), not even an emulation wizard would pretend he or she will immediately overlook the possibility of owning an actual machine, if he or she was offered the opportunity to have / rent / borrow one under favorable circumstances.

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