On the subject of SPS priorities...

rhester72 · 31 December 2009, 14:19

I certainly respect everything the group has done, and understand their reasons why - but would it be too much to ask to at least finish the job of finalizing the IPF spec to include mixed-mode (read: Amiga+ST) disks of major historical importance (like the first Dungeon Master release - though as you well know, there are a good many more) and get those out to the contributors before going off on a years-long (in all likelihood) pursuit of KryoFlux? The mixed-mode solution has been hanging in the wind now for more than half a decade, seemingly largely through indecision combined with a desire to have some sort of utopic one-size-fits-all-for-any-platform solution that may not practically exist.

Can we just get the rest of our IPFs like this that we contributed in good faith, along with an updated library, so we can at least mark that stage "closed" before running off in pursuit of a completely different idea? Pretty please? With sugar on top?

Rodney

fiath · 31 December 2009, 17:56

Hi Rodney. These things are roughly intended to be worked on in parallel. Though it is true that the previous work has been put on the back burner for a bit, it has not stopped, and I think the plan is to concentrate more on that as the main parts of KryoFlux development are finished.

We were actually coming up against a bit of a problem - dumps for Amiga were drying up, and most of what is submitted these days are duplicate or bad. Having something like KryoFlux will, if things go well, open up some opportunities not possible before, but we'll talk more about those when/if they happen.

What I guess I am saying is that we have to weigh up the priorities for what we think is best in the long term, and having time go by without a steady-stream of contributions on the side is a lost opportunity IMO. KryoFlux was partly intended to fix that.

The multi-platform (and other platform) support is at an advanced stage, but there is still some work to do, and there is also many operational changes that need to be finished (actually, are actively being worked on, just boring stuff and not really WIP worthy) before we can get anything out there. I appreciate this might be frustrating from your perspective, but even if the technical stuff was finished today (and it's not), we still have quite a few things to sort out before we can make things available to contributors - things like meta-data, internal automation tool changes, website changes, and other related things.

We certainly have not forgotten about it for sure!

Perhaps the others have more to say on this, but I thought I should throw this in there...

rhester72 · 31 December 2009, 21:07

Fair enough.

Thank you!

Rodney

IFW · 07 June 2010, 21:58

Thread necromancy

mr.vince · 08 June 2010, 19:57

I just posted this to our Facebook page:

Finally, after all these years, and as of today, The Software Preservation Society is proud to present the support of further platforms with our Interchangeable Preservation Format (IPF). This will be a great relief for collectors around the globe. Among the new platforms supported are also Atari ST and IBM PC, and this even works for dual or triple format software which is what we have chosen for the first batch released today. Why start with the ordinary, when you can have a real challenge? Especially Thalion games were fun to work with as some of them must have had more time spent on the disk protection than on the whole game itself. We have a huge backlog of dumps made for these platforms, but we're working on them, so please keep 'em coming. If in doubt - dump it. You can still do this with our original capture tools for the Amiga and soon with KryoFlux, our high resolution flux sampler for USB.

Playback of the new images requires the latest library from our site and updated host software (e.g. WinUAE, already available as beta). HxC, the hardware floppy emulator, has also been updated to support the new images and we'd like to thank Jean-françois Del Nero for comprehensive testing on real computers. Once again, we're pretty proud all is working out fine so far, and we'd like to share this moment of joy with you.

http://www.softpres.org/games

MrX_Cuci · 08 June 2010, 23:10

Sounds like good news to me. Any other emulators that supports the "new" IPF format yet or have it on the planned list?

mr.vince · 08 June 2010, 23:53

I know some have betas that support it, but many are still working on it. The Amiga community is pretty fastidious because Toni Wilen is so focused and driven by perfection. I am always surprised how much time and work Toni puts into his project. But I expect some to pop up soon(er or later).

And HxC already supports it... so even works on real hardware.

fiath · 09 June 2010, 00:23

Some more info: http://softpres.org/news:2010-06-08

"It has taken a huge amount of time and effort to get this far, but we always keep at a problem until it is solved properly and the results are well tested. This work is the result of, and encompasses, the automatic format script generation for generic MFM formats, comprehensive support for gap data, and even a complete cycle-exact WDC177x FDC emulator that was painstakingly reverse-engineered and verified against real hardware to help emulator authors should they need it (now part of the IPF library). These things have been detailed in the WIPs posted over the past few years (including some not posted yet), and have at last come to fruition."

killergorilla · 09 June 2010, 00:26

Nice work. Seriously.

I have no idea what most of the WIPs mean, but the results look good to me

fiath · 09 June 2010, 00:32

I know, and it's quite hard to summarise them without removing stuff that some people might find interesting. Even if they are hard to understand, I think they are still a very good as a record of progress (showing we're active - when we get round to posting them) and documentation, which might very well be be needed in the future.

IFW · 09 June 2010, 00:38

It means - among other things - this:
http://www.softpres.org/games

...plus...
stay tuned

Galahad/FLT · 09 June 2010, 01:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by IFW

It means - among other things - this:
http://www.softpres.org/games

...plus...
stay tuned

So that means you've got the final fiddly Psygnosis stuff done then

killergorilla · 09 June 2010, 01:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by fiath

I know, and it's quite hard to summarise them without removing stuff that some people might find interesting. Even if they are hard to understand, I think they are still a very good as a record of progress (showing we're active - when we get round to posting them) and documentation, which might very well be be needed in the future.

Oh god yeah, I'd never want you guys to dumb it down for people like me

If I actually look into a lot of it, it begins to make SOME sense, but I'm happy in my ignorance

Well done

Duke · 09 June 2010, 13:35

Is there any chance to make the WDC177x emulation public? I would be very interested to have a look at it.

IFW · 09 June 2010, 14:17

Yes, there is

haynor666 · 09 June 2010, 21:49

Well, It looks my copy of Ziriax helped to restore this game

Steve · 09 June 2010, 22:15

Awesome work guys!! Can we expect Dungeon Master sometime soon then? How do I get my grubby mitts on Hunter? I have the boxed original copy here.

IFW · 10 June 2010, 00:04

DM sometime, yes. Would require a new datatype/script but otherwise fine.
If you dumped Hunter you should recieve a link in the upcoming days, but if not please let us know.

mr.vince · 10 June 2010, 19:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by haynor

Well, It looks my copy of Ziriax helped to restore this game

Indeed.

Steve · 10 June 2010, 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by IFW

DM sometime, yes. Would require a new datatype/script but otherwise fine.
If you dumped Hunter you should recieve a link in the upcoming days, but if not please let us know.

No I haven't dumped hunter but own a copy of the game. Same with a couple of others which I am still waiting for from interceptor.

31 December 2009, 14:19	#1
rhester72 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: New York / USA Posts: 360	On the subject of SPS priorities... I certainly respect everything the group has done, and understand their reasons why - but would it be too much to ask to at least finish the job of finalizing the IPF spec to include mixed-mode (read: Amiga+ST) disks of major historical importance (like the first Dungeon Master release - though as you well know, there are a good many more) and get those out to the contributors before going off on a years-long (in all likelihood) pursuit of KryoFlux? The mixed-mode solution has been hanging in the wind now for more than half a decade, seemingly largely through indecision combined with a desire to have some sort of utopic one-size-fits-all-for-any-platform solution that may not practically exist. Can we just get the rest of our IPFs like this that we contributed in good faith, along with an updated library, so we can at least mark that stage "closed" before running off in pursuit of a completely different idea? Pretty please? With sugar on top? Rodney

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31 December 2009, 17:56	#2
fiath Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: South East / UK Age: 46 Posts: 1,930	Hi Rodney. These things are roughly intended to be worked on in parallel. Though it is true that the previous work has been put on the back burner for a bit, it has not stopped, and I think the plan is to concentrate more on that as the main parts of KryoFlux development are finished. We were actually coming up against a bit of a problem - dumps for Amiga were drying up, and most of what is submitted these days are duplicate or bad. Having something like KryoFlux will, if things go well, open up some opportunities not possible before, but we'll talk more about those when/if they happen. What I guess I am saying is that we have to weigh up the priorities for what we think is best in the long term, and having time go by without a steady-stream of contributions on the side is a lost opportunity IMO. KryoFlux was partly intended to fix that. The multi-platform (and other platform) support is at an advanced stage, but there is still some work to do, and there is also many operational changes that need to be finished (actually, are actively being worked on, just boring stuff and not really WIP worthy) before we can get anything out there. I appreciate this might be frustrating from your perspective, but even if the technical stuff was finished today (and it's not), we still have quite a few things to sort out before we can make things available to contributors - things like meta-data, internal automation tool changes, website changes, and other related things. We certainly have not forgotten about it for sure! Perhaps the others have more to say on this, but I thought I should throw this in there...

31 December 2009, 21:07	#3
rhester72 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: New York / USA Posts: 360	Fair enough. Thank you! Rodney

07 June 2010, 21:58	#4
IFW Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: ... Age: 52 Posts: 1,838	Thread necromancy

08 June 2010, 19:57	#5
mr.vince Cheesy crust Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Hawk's Creek Age: 48 Posts: 1,383	I just posted this to our Facebook page: Finally, after all these years, and as of today, The Software Preservation Society is proud to present the support of further platforms with our Interchangeable Preservation Format (IPF). This will be a great relief for collectors around the globe. Among the new platforms supported are also Atari ST and IBM PC, and this even works for dual or triple format software which is what we have chosen for the first batch released today. Why start with the ordinary, when you can have a real challenge? Especially Thalion games were fun to work with as some of them must have had more time spent on the disk protection than on the whole game itself. We have a huge backlog of dumps made for these platforms, but we're working on them, so please keep 'em coming. If in doubt - dump it. You can still do this with our original capture tools for the Amiga and soon with KryoFlux, our high resolution flux sampler for USB. Playback of the new images requires the latest library from our site and updated host software (e.g. WinUAE, already available as beta). HxC, the hardware floppy emulator, has also been updated to support the new images and we'd like to thank Jean-françois Del Nero for comprehensive testing on real computers. Once again, we're pretty proud all is working out fine so far, and we'd like to share this moment of joy with you. http://www.softpres.org/games

08 June 2010, 23:10	#6
MrX_Cuci Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Location: The Netherlands Age: 44 Posts: 199	Sounds like good news to me. Any other emulators that supports the "new" IPF format yet or have it on the planned list?

08 June 2010, 23:53	#7
mr.vince Cheesy crust Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Hawk's Creek Age: 48 Posts: 1,383	I know some have betas that support it, but many are still working on it. The Amiga community is pretty fastidious because Toni Wilen is so focused and driven by perfection. I am always surprised how much time and work Toni puts into his project. But I expect some to pop up soon(er or later). And HxC already supports it... so even works on real hardware.

09 June 2010, 00:23	#8
fiath Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: South East / UK Age: 46 Posts: 1,930	Some more info: http://softpres.org/news:2010-06-08 "It has taken a huge amount of time and effort to get this far, but we always keep at a problem until it is solved properly and the results are well tested. This work is the result of, and encompasses, the automatic format script generation for generic MFM formats, comprehensive support for gap data, and even a complete cycle-exact WDC177x FDC emulator that was painstakingly reverse-engineered and verified against real hardware to help emulator authors should they need it (now part of the IPF library). These things have been detailed in the WIPs posted over the past few years (including some not posted yet), and have at last come to fruition."

09 June 2010, 00:26	#9
killergorilla Lesser Talent Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: UK Age: 42 Posts: 7,957	Nice work. Seriously. I have no idea what most of the WIPs mean, but the results look good to me

09 June 2010, 00:32	#10
fiath Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: South East / UK Age: 46 Posts: 1,930	I know, and it's quite hard to summarise them without removing stuff that some people might find interesting. Even if they are hard to understand, I think they are still a very good as a record of progress (showing we're active - when we get round to posting them) and documentation, which might very well be be needed in the future.

09 June 2010, 00:38	#11
IFW Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: ... Age: 52 Posts: 1,838	It means - among other things - this: http://www.softpres.org/games ...plus... stay tuned

09 June 2010, 13:35	#14
Duke HOL-Team Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Germany Age: 43 Posts: 520	Is there any chance to make the WDC177x emulation public? I would be very interested to have a look at it.

09 June 2010, 14:17	#15
IFW Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: ... Age: 52 Posts: 1,838	Yes, there is

09 June 2010, 21:49	#16
haynor666 retro maniac Join Date: May 2002 Location: Tarnobrzeg/Poland Age: 45 Posts: 1,748	Well, It looks my copy of Ziriax helped to restore this game

09 June 2010, 22:15	#17
Steve I Identify as an Ewok Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: North Lincolnshire Age: 45 Posts: 2,356	Awesome work guys!! Can we expect Dungeon Master sometime soon then? How do I get my grubby mitts on Hunter? I have the boxed original copy here.

10 June 2010, 00:04	#18
IFW Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: ... Age: 52 Posts: 1,838	DM sometime, yes. Would require a new datatype/script but otherwise fine. If you dumped Hunter you should recieve a link in the upcoming days, but if not please let us know.

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