English Amiga Board


Go Back   English Amiga Board > Support > support.Hardware > Hardware mods

 
 
Thread Tools
Old 27 May 2018, 01:04   #1
utri007
mä vaan
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Finland
Posts: 754
What would be need to make axxelerator work with CDTV?

There are several accelerator projects for A500, but none of them work with CDTV.

Work means that CD-Drive works.

Accelerator would need to use Zorro III address base?
CD drive doesn't like MHz over 7?

Could someone who actually know what would be needed tell about it?
utri007 is offline  
Old 27 May 2018, 01:58   #2
plasmab
Registered User

plasmab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 2,633
What would be need to make axxelerator work with CDTV?

Quote:
Originally Posted by utri007 View Post
There are several accelerator projects for A500, but none of them work with CDTV.

Work means that CD-Drive works.

Accelerator would need to use Zorro III address base?
CD drive doesn't like MHz over 7?

Could someone who actually know what would be needed tell about it?

To be fair nobody has tested the CDTV with the accelerators. So we simply don’t know. In most cases they simply do not physically fit. That’s all.
plasmab is offline  
Old 27 May 2018, 11:07   #3
utri007
mä vaan
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Finland
Posts: 754
Quote:
Originally Posted by plasmab View Post
To be fair nobody has tested the CDTV with the accelerators. So we simply don’t know. In most cases they simply do not physically fit. That’s all.
Thats not the case. CDTV has actually very nicely room for accelerator.

Vampire fits with relocator, but doesn't work. it requires disabling CDTV extended roms.
TF 530 fits with relocator, but doesn't work. Requires disabling CDTV roms.
Matze's 68030 TK fits with relocator, but doesn't work. How ever it does NOT require disabling roms. CD-drive just doesn't work.
Mega MIdget racer has same symptons than 68030 TK and it has tested so that CD-drive doesn't work even if accelerator is running 7mhz
utri007 is offline  
Old 27 May 2018, 11:21   #4
Toni Wilen
WinUAE developer
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland
Age: 43
Posts: 21,876
CDTV + accelerator can have multiple problems:

- CDTV CD drive is DMA capable and can't access any RAM outside of first 16M address space (24-bit Z2 limit)
- CDTV CD autoconfig board must be located at $e90000 (=must be first 64k Z2 IO device in autoconfig chain. It is autoconfig but ROM driver uses hardcoded addresses..). Accelerator may have its own 64k IO board which will conflict with CD device. Simple workaround is to make sure accelerator Z2 IO (If it even has one) is at least 128k in size.
- Even if accelerator has only "24-bit" RAM (max 8M), it most likely don't have any external DMA support.

It has nothing to do with CPU speed.
Toni Wilen is online now  
Old 27 May 2018, 11:32   #5
plasmab
Registered User

plasmab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 2,633
What would be need to make axxelerator work with CDTV?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
CDTV + accelerator can have multiple problems:



- CDTV CD drive is DMA capable and can't access any RAM outside of first 16M address space (24-bit Z2 limit)

- CDTV CD autoconfig board must be located at $e90000 (=must be first 64k Z2 IO device in autoconfig chain. It is autoconfig but ROM driver uses hardcoded addresses..). Accelerator may have its own 64k IO board which will conflict with CD device. Simple workaround is to make sure accelerator Z2 IO (If it even has one) is at least 128k in size.

- Even if accelerator has only "24-bit" RAM (max 8M), it most likely don't have any external DMA support.



It has nothing to do with CPU speed.


The tf530 eats the E90000 space. Plus it sounds like the roms aren’t 030 compatible. Either way the issue is that the CDTV isn’t a “clean” Amiga.

EDIT: the tf530 works on the Atari ST so it supports bus mastering correctly but the 32bit RAM won’t allow DMA to fast memory due to bus width mismatch.

Last edited by plasmab; 27 May 2018 at 11:41.
plasmab is offline  
Old 27 May 2018, 11:58   #6
utri007
mä vaan
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Finland
Posts: 754
I'm not very technical, but it is possible to load cdtv Ron modules with load modules, so they initialize right when accelerator is presented.

Is there any tests what could help?
utri007 is offline  
Old 27 May 2018, 12:05   #7
plasmab
Registered User

plasmab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 2,633
What you suggest is possible but it would be easier to do as Toni suggests and either disable the SPI port on the TF530 or make it 128k.

Assuming there are no 030 incompatibilities in the ROM
plasmab is offline  
Old 27 May 2018, 16:16   #8
utri007
mä vaan
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Finland
Posts: 754
Quote:
Originally Posted by plasmab View Post
What you suggest is possible but it would be easier to do as Toni suggests and either disable the SPI port on the TF530 or make it 128k.

Assuming there are no 030 incompatibilities in the ROM
There is rare 68030 accelerator for CDTV. It is 14mhz and no ram. So that would suggest that there is no issue with CPU, but ram is a issue?

Would it be that very first TF accelerator without ram could work? No ram, no SPI?

Plasmab & Toni thanks for a input.
utri007 is offline  
Old 27 May 2018, 16:20   #9
plasmab
Registered User

plasmab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 2,633
Well for ram you’d need 16bit for DMA or a fancy swizzler.
plasmab is offline  
Old 27 May 2018, 18:49   #10
utri007
mä vaan
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Finland
Posts: 754
Quote:
Originally Posted by plasmab View Post
Well for ram you’d need 16bit for DMA or a fancy swizzler.
What you think, would it be possible that tf520 could work with CDTV?

I would like to test it, but there is no tf520s lying around,

What would I need to do that you would interested to solve these problems.
utri007 is offline  
Old 27 May 2018, 19:07   #11
plasmab
Registered User

plasmab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 2,633
Quote:
Originally Posted by utri007 View Post
What you think, would it be possible that tf520 could work with CDTV?



I would like to test it, but there is no tf520s lying around,



What would I need to do that you would interested to solve these problems.

The tf520 would probably be a good place to start.

I’ve pretty much stopped the whole project. Too much life getting in the way.
plasmab is offline  
Old 27 May 2018, 19:48   #12
utri007
mä vaan
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Finland
Posts: 754
Quote:
Originally Posted by plasmab View Post
The tf520 would probably be a good place to start.

I’ve pretty much stopped the whole project. Too much life getting in the way.
I have read whole terrible fire thread, so I know about what has happened. I just didn't have anything to actually contribute, so I didn't want to write nonsens to that thread. I only could have write "anything new" questions. But I did wait 68040 version of Terrible Fire. My point of view it would have been game changer.

I ques that too much people got involved and risks of a-holes rises then rapidly.

There is CDTV users group in Facebook, it has some 90 members, so risk of a-holes is not that big. And CDTV is rare machine.

I send a PM to you.

Last edited by utri007; 27 May 2018 at 19:53.
utri007 is offline  
Old 27 May 2018, 20:02   #13
plasmab
Registered User

plasmab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 2,633
Quote:
Originally Posted by utri007 View Post
I have read whole terrible fire thread, so I know about what has happened. I just didn't have anything to actually contribute, so I didn't want to write nonsens to that thread. I only could have write "anything new" questions. But I did wait 68040 version of Terrible Fire. My point of view it would have been game changer.

I ques that too much people got involved and risks of a-holes rises then rapidly.

There is CDTV users group in Facebook, it has some 90 members, so risk of a-holes is not that big. And CDTV is rare machine.

I send a PM to you.


I’ve always said I have no issue with people modifying and improving the boards. But removing the GPL and saying is “from scratch” is BS. If the Amiga community doesn’t play by the rules then I simply won’t contribute.
plasmab is offline  
Old 27 May 2018, 20:30   #14
utri007
mä vaan
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Finland
Posts: 754
Quote:
Originally Posted by plasmab View Post
I’ve always said I have no issue with people modifying and improving the boards. But removing the GPL and saying is “from scratch” is BS. If the Amiga community doesn’t play by the rules then I simply won’t contribute.
I think that there is a multiple problems.

- Amiga people has very difficult history with piracy. Even now whem we are actualy adults and we have money, some people claim those who asks money for their software for villains. I have seen very shamefull discussions about price of some people work.
- Surprisingly many people can make their own hardware, but they don't have your programming skills.

Together those two points has made problems you have entered. I think that problem is more often than you actually know. Only positive thing to say is that they are not mean, they just "don't think". Wich is same.

You have made so much for community, that I really wish that you could continue your work. At least now you know and you are prepared and maybe community could protect your assets more, so that you would not need to do it yourself.

PS. Did you got my PM
utri007 is offline  
Old 31 May 2018, 00:47   #15
utri007
mä vaan
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Finland
Posts: 754
Matze's 68030 has a 4mb 24bit Zorro II memory, it does not reserve $e90000 memory area and it does DMA.

CDTV boots, but not possible to use/boot from CD-rom.
utri007 is offline  
Old 31 May 2018, 20:57   #16
Paul_s
Stuck in the 80s

Paul_s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Amigaville
Age: 40
Posts: 3,195
Quote:
Originally Posted by utri007 View Post
There is rare 68030 accelerator for CDTV. It is 14mhz and no ram. So that would suggest that there is no issue with CPU, but ram is a issue?

Would it be that very first TF accelerator without ram could work? No ram, no SPI?

Plasmab & Toni thanks for a input.
Ah yes the legendary Turbo CD.

http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.co...ct.aspx?id=279

There's one here for sales... don't show the bank manager though

https://www.ebay.de/itm/TURBO-CD-Tur...MAAOxy039TKqXI


Perhaps a long shot but do you remember the 'Big RAM 600'? This was given permission for a new build run... maybe WAW would do the same with the Turbo CD... now that would be cool. Re-work the original design and add on some RAM... call it Turbo CD+?

http://bboah.amiga-resistance.info/c...gi?HARDID=1735

WAW are still trading by the looks of things... https://en.yelp.ch/biz/w-a-w-elektronik-berlin

Last edited by Paul_s; 31 May 2018 at 21:06.
Paul_s is offline  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How do I make CDs that can be booted from CDTV VoltureX request.Apps 9 14 October 2012 19:45
How to make or adapt a keyboard to work on a cdtv ? russel_williams support.Hardware 1 05 February 2011 07:37
how to make a cdtv's cdrom switcher? jolly11 Hardware mods 7 31 August 2009 08:42
Catweasel IV can't make it work zimgr5 support.Hardware 14 17 February 2009 22:02
Can anyone make this demo work? Ziaxx support.Demos 20 02 January 2002 21:03

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 11:30.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Page generated in 0.10988 seconds with 13 queries