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31 January 2012, 00:38   #101
P-J
Grumpy veteran

Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Moorpark, California
Age: 38
Posts: 1,146
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Dunny Ditto to that - I'd love to see if I can write a lotus/outrun clone in BASIC. Actually, PJ - would you be willing to share some algorithm descriptions, especially regarding road storage and generation? Not source code, just a description of how it's done? D.
Nothing to it really

To start drawing the track, you draw 128 horizontal lines that go into the distance, the spacing getting less and less as you draw higher up the screen, and the width getting less and less too. Just a really basic 3D projection in 2D.

Code:
```           ---
-----

---------

---------------```
Then you interpolate between these lines with lines that fill in the gaps.

Code:
```           ---
-----
-------
---------
-----------
-------------
---------------```
That's the basics of drawing the straight track. There's formulas for working out where each line would be, but I just used trial and error to work all that out (with the help of Shaun, obviously!).

Then, for corners, you'd have a value of '4' for a corner. This means you shift each line across exponentially by four from the front to the back. (4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256...). Because you've projected the lines in 3D (on a 2D surface) the track appears to curve (rather than take a straight line off to one side).

To do hills, it's the same principal. It's just a curve that operates on the y-axis instead of the x-axis (and uses smaller adjustments so it doesn't end up looking like a cliff ).

That's simplified quite a bit in that there's a lot more going on to achieve the Lotus look over, say, the Pole Position look, but that's the basics.

Once the game is further through and I have time I'll take some screenshots with certain stuff disabled and some debug info which should de-mystify the process a bit.

 31 January 2012, 11:57 #102 Christian Zone Friend   Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Gloucestershire Age: 45 Posts: 218 This look really great P-J, good luck with it Loving the explanations too.. I'd loove this on iPad, but I guess that will always be out of the question. (silly me, just re-read your original post, IOS planned ... nice!) Last edited by Christian; 31 January 2012 at 12:00. Reason: oops
 31 January 2012, 12:49 #103 P-J Grumpy veteran   Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Moorpark, California Age: 38 Posts: 1,146 Yeah man, it's making good progress and it should really be a breeze to get it on to iPad and iPhone. That said, I've not even tried an iPhone build yet, so while I'm waiting for the graphics I may well fire up the Mac and give it a go.
31 January 2012, 15:19   #104
Christian
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by P-J Yeah man, it's making good progress and it should really be a breeze to get it on to iPad and iPhone. That said, I've not even tried an iPhone build yet, so while I'm waiting for the graphics I may well fire up the Mac and give it a go.
Well, I'd buy it. Especially since there doesn't seem to be an Amiga emulator available (I realise you probably won't be able to charge, etc) but still...

 31 January 2012, 15:58 #105 Dreedo Registered User   Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: West Yorkshire, UK Age: 25 Posts: 657 If I had an iOS device it'd be a must buy for me too. If I got a mobile OS it would be Android. So be cool to see a version of that out too.
 31 January 2012, 16:51 #106 Christian Zone Friend   Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Gloucestershire Age: 45 Posts: 218 Yeah Dreedo, know what you mean. Android would be really nice. I stuck Day of the Tentacle on my Mrs' droid phone last night, she loves it! Bit OT but I'm not an Apple fan, but I don't have a smart-phone, no laptop, just a very powerful PC. Was after a "comfy" system to use and tbh, the iPad did it for me over the rivals. Also into creating music, etc and there is loads of stuff for it. Jailbroken of course Mario-Kart and Outrun arcade with a proper controller ... in bed ... oh yes lol No Amiga stuff (apart from some remakes, including the very excellent Battle Squadron, and others) makes me sad. Lotus 2 remake would go some way to fixing that for me. One of my faves.
 31 January 2012, 17:48 #107 Greyfox Pixel Blender!   Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Dublin, Ireland Age: 46 Posts: 265 this would be a beauty on the Ipad with an icade controller, with the most biggest Bonus of Multi-online play, but I fear now, since Gremlin graphics have returned from the dead and are create stuff stuff for IOS, they'd kick up a storm over licencing etc.. , if they was ever to goto the Appstore, wondering if there is a another way to play online gaming, like this one, without using Openfeint?
 31 January 2012, 17:54 #108 Christian Zone Friend   Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Gloucestershire Age: 45 Posts: 218 Yeah, I'm loving using the Wii controller along with the Classic Controller Pro, although I have a horrible feeling Apple don't allow that for official stuff Stupid really. Something to do with low-level Bluetooth stuff I think ... who knows.. Edit: would be nice if this became THE official Lotus release with Gremlin involved, etc. Like I said, I'd pay
 01 February 2012, 01:37 #109 P-J Grumpy veteran   Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Moorpark, California Age: 38 Posts: 1,146 Thanks for all the comments dude. Regarding the whole 'charging for it' and 'official Gremlin' thing, I'd certainly never try and charge for it for two reasons-- The original develoepr helped me a lot, and because it's not my IP Not sure how to approach putting in in the app store-- I guess even if it was free the original developers could take exception to it and I might get a nasty e-mail. Perhaps a non-Lotus rebrand might be necessary. Or I could just take my chances.
 01 February 2012, 02:45 #110 Greyfox Pixel Blender!   Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Dublin, Ireland Age: 46 Posts: 265 Be careful what you wish for, apple themselves have a really strict line of conduct, and have a 3 week queuing system for new apps to be released on the app store, I've read a good few stories where apple don't allow games or apps on there store without giving any reason what so ever, and a simple complain from another company claiming. Copyright infringement and it's pulled, but yes this would be a great edition to the app store not doubt about it, and who gladly pay for it on the app stored, purely for the online play along.
 01 February 2012, 02:53 #111 Dreedo Registered User   Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: West Yorkshire, UK Age: 25 Posts: 657 I think Apple would let it pass, I know there are a few games that push the boundaries available for it. Android will certainly allow it, theres several Minecraft clones on Android, some with names almost exactly the same, and they don't get pulled. Of course if the original developers complained to either, I'm pretty sure they'd pull your app from the market.
 01 February 2012, 23:21 #112 trackah123 Amiga User   Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Delft / The Netherlands Posts: 325 Hey. Great work on this, Lotus was 1 of my favourite racinggames on the Amiga, next to Jaguar XJ220. I just had this idea, how about some rally levels now and then with lots of dirt, mud and gravel Did lotus make Rallycars btw in the past? anyone?
02 February 2012, 01:32   #113
arpz
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Southampton, UK
Posts: 27
Quote:
 Originally Posted by trackah123 Hey. Great work on this, Lotus was 1 of my favourite racinggames on the Amiga, next to Jaguar XJ220. I just had this idea, how about some rally levels now and then with lots of dirt, mud and gravel Did lotus make Rallycars btw in the past? anyone?

Just this one... The Lotus Talbot Sunbeam

 02 February 2012, 06:37 #114 trackah123 Amiga User   Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Delft / The Netherlands Posts: 325 Hmm nice, could be used for some kind of "Lotus Rally Bonus Level" or something.
02 February 2012, 12:38   #115
P-J
Grumpy veteran

Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Moorpark, California
Age: 38
Posts: 1,146
Quote:
 Originally Posted by trackah123 Hmm nice, could be used for some kind of "Lotus Rally Bonus Level" or something.
It's all down to how long I can keep this artist motivated for. There's plenty more were I work (games company), but I'm keen on his style.

02 February 2012, 17:49   #116
gimbal
cheeky scoundrel

Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Spijkenisse/Netherlands
Age: 37
Posts: 3,090
Quote:
 Originally Posted by P-J Nothing to it really *snip*
That is a cool explanation that makes me feel a little silly for not figuring that out partially myself.

Quote:
 Once the game is further through and I have time I'll take some screenshots with certain stuff disabled and some debug info which should de-mystify the process a bit.
That would be very cool indeed. This is a really good example of how useful such things actually are:

http://www.java-gaming.org/topics/la...5402/view.html

Nothing like explaining something than by breaking it down into steps.

02 February 2012, 19:10   #117
P-J
Grumpy veteran

Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Moorpark, California
Age: 38
Posts: 1,146
Quote:
 Originally Posted by gimbal Nothing like explaining something than by breaking it down into steps.
Yeah, absolutely. That's how I got this game to look so 'Lotus-y'. Initial Shaun gave me a basic brief about how the track is drawn, but we had to drill down into mega detail to get it look anything like the original game. Just because there's so many factors as to how curves are drawn, how hills are drawn, how often the track texture changes into the distance (every 4 3D lines? every 10 screen lines?) and so on.

That's not to say it's technically complicated, because it's clearly not! It's just been a long road to get it to this stage. Factoring in of course that the chap made this game over 20 years ago now, most of the stuff was from memory. And memory doesn't really last that long

Now all I have to do is get it finished, which I'm determined to do!

 27 February 2012, 21:16 #118 benjamin   Posts: n/a Hi! This thread is pure awesomeness. Thanks for the explanations and videos. I'm looking forward to implement the track drawing algorithmn in JavaScript/HTML5Canvas for educational purposes. Just a very simple demonstration without any textures.
27 February 2012, 23:29   #119
wilshy
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SouthEast-ish UK
Posts: 367
Quote:
 Originally Posted by LotusGoblins From what I understand, you mean that there may be a new Lotus, with the same graphic environment that existed in the first trilogy?
I reckon that's spot on. Chuck in the Exige, Evora etc but keeping in the style of the original. Could be real nice.

 07 May 2012, 05:44 #120 jr2310   Posts: n/a hi P-J, a user has written about your project on a german retro games site, and i just read, what you are about to develop here. man, as a thirty something, who played the lotus games on the amige 500 when they came out, i can tell you, your idea rocks big time. my suggestion is to make a game as near to the originals as possible. of course some of the ideas mentioned here are very cool, but they should be available as an option, not as a must. please make this game run on android and keep in mind, that a lot of mobile phones have smaller resolutions. mine has 480 x 320 for example. and dont forget about a touch screen steering possibility, as i cant stand tiliting the phone around all the time. if one day i will be able to play lotus on my mobile phone thanks to you, you will be my personal hero, and i will be very thankfull. can you tell, when the game will be done? btw: i would be willing to pay for that game, if neccessary, but i will gladely donate anyway, as i read you consider not to take money for it, you noble guy greetings from berlin, mate! Last edited by jr2310; 07 May 2012 at 05:55.

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