Where are we in the Amiga popularity state?

[tonyyeb]

Obviously demand for Amiga's rises and falls as more or less people want to get (back) into/out-of the retro Amiga scene. I see A600's going for £20-£40 on ebay depending on condition and accessories. A1200's ~£40 for a bog standard untested model etc...

These seem very cheap to me with some of the parts costing a large percentage of what you would pay for a complete unit - for example a A500/A600/A1200 PSU can fetch £10 inc P&P. Mice around a fiver, joysticks ~£10.

So are we seeing a downward trend in value or upward? Have the Amiga forums seen more or less activity (new member join rates)? Has minimig sparked more interest in the 68k Amiga's? Will Natami do the same?

I know it is a bit heavy for a Monday morning but as a recent returner to the scene i'm interested to see if I am bucking the trend or riding the wave!

[musojon74]

I think its quite stable, maybe has increased since i bought my a1200 in 04, which i paid 80 for with an 030/42 with (admittedly fixed to board) 4meg ram and a 4 gig hard disc. Now accelerators go for about that.

[Hungry Horace]

for a machine that has been dead for 14 years , i'd go with 'massively overpriced' .... like most retro hardware.

[alexh]

Massively overpriced.

I tried to explain the UK Amiga price bio-rhythms before. It all surrounds the age and lifestyles of the Amiga users.

The first dip in Amiga prices (the lowest) was between 1997-9. The market was flooded by Amiga's as everyone wanted to sell their hardware before it lost all of it's value (to buy a Voodoo accelerated PC to play GLQuake!). At the low point you could pick up A1200 accelerators for next to nothing!

Between 2000-1 the market bounded back, nostalgia for retro had kicked in driven by the uptake of broadband and the internet. Forums such as this gave the former Amiga users nostalgic pangs. They had to reclaim their hardware and as such prices went up and up and up!

Then we come to the dread crash of 2002-2003 Brought on because around this time most Amiga users got married!! The "crap" collected in a bachelors lifetime had to go! The deluge of Amiga gear on Ebay pushed prices down prices.

By 2005 saw prices steadily coming back. The Amiga users had their first children a year or two earlier and had an excuse to buy something "for the baby". Some bought lego, Scalextrics others Amiga computers so their kids could play the same games they did. The users who were too fat and ugly to get married now had high paid jobs in the IT industry which enabled them to get the dream Amiga they always wanted.

At the moment we are at the 2nd child point. This is where all the crap that was stored in the 3rd bedroom now has to go in the attic or the bin (aka Ebay). This is driving down prices as the market is saturated. Give it another two years and the Amiga community will be able to afford that 4 bed with study and the nostalgic call of the Amiga will once again push up prices.

[gklinger]

Prices go up as availability drops but I can't help but wonder if there is a saturation point at which everyone who is still interested in the Amiga pretty much has the hardware they want. Also to be considered is the depressing fact that we're aging and as we die off there won't be new Amiga users to take our place.

[tonyyeb]

So now is a good time to buy for any Amiga enthusiast. Plus I suppose anyone needing cash in this time of poor economic stability will sell stuff like old Amiga's to generate a bit of spending money.

[tonyyeb]

Originally Posted by gklinger

Prices go up as availability drops but I can't help but wonder if there is a saturation point at which everyone who is still interested in the Amiga pretty much has the hardware they want. Also to be considered is the depressing fact that we're aging and as we die off there won't be new Amiga users to take our place.

I was only thining that about an hour ago. What is going to happen when all the talented people who still develop software and hardware for the Amiga either decide to give up or even worse die? I was 12 (1992 - I think) when I got my first new Amiga (A600) so I think I probably am one of the youngest Amiga enthusiasts from the original release times of the OCS/ECS machines .

[alexh]

Originally Posted by gklinger

I wonder if there is a saturation point at which everyone who is still interested in the Amiga pretty much has the hardware they want.

You find that people start buying spares. Keropi for example has one of everything there is AND a spare

[tonyyeb]

Originally Posted by alexh

You find that people start buying spares. Keropi for example has one of everything there is AND a spare

My gf would kill me

We don't have the room for what I have... let alone what I want!

[alexh]

Originally Posted by tonyyeb

I was 12 (1992 - I think) when I got my first new Amiga (A600) so I think I probably am one of the youngest Amiga enthusiasts from the original release times of the OCS/ECS machines .

I got my first computer (Acorn Electron) when I was 9. So I would imagine there are a few younger than yourself. Also 1992 wasn't the last big year of the Amiga in the UK.

Anyone here 9 in 1994 with an A1200 as their first computer?

[musashi5150]

I have several spares already but if I had a bigger house and more money there would be more

Graham is one of the youngens

[alexh]

You have to wonder if kids create anything these days? We spent half our time playing games. And the other half trying to out do the other kids by writing demos.

By the time I was 12 my parents could not have understood what the contents of my Birthday / Xmas wishlist actually was. "Spectrum ROM Kernel disassembly by Melbourne, Z80 users manual, 50 Memorex C10 tapes"

[blade002]

Originally Posted by alexh

Anyone here 9 in 1994 with an A1200 as their first computer?

Nope, i was 20 in 1994

1st computer for home was the C64 for me, and the first i used was an Apple IIe ... sigh, i don't want to get any older, i still can't believe that in just over 5 years i will be 40 years old. There really is no justice.

[gklinger]

Originally Posted by alexh

You find that people start buying spares. Keropi for example has one of everything there is AND a spare

There's still a limit. I spend a lot of time in the Commodore 8 bit community (I can't think of a better way to say that) and we're starting to see that limit. A good example is the Commodore 1581 which is a 3.5" disk drive for the 8 bitters. As late as March of this year they were selling for $150-$175 with a few auctions that got out of control going over $200. Now they sit on eBay with $100 BINs. Why? Because all of us who are hardcore enough to know what a 1581 is have them already. I don't think the Amiga has reached that point but it will. It's inevitable.

As an interesting side note, many 64 guys bought 1581s kits that required a compatible floppy disk drive mechanism so they bought Amiga 500s, ripped the floppy drive out and tossed the rest in the garbage.

[tonyyeb]

Originally Posted by alexh

I got my first computer (Acorn Electron) when I was 9. So I would imagine there are a few younger than yourself. Also 1992 wasn't the last big year of the Amiga in the UK.

Anyone here 9 in 1994 with an A1200 as their first computer?

Well I was 6 when I got a Tandy TRS-80 and 9 when I got a Speccy 128 +2. I still think I will be one of the youngest from the OCS/ECS era.

[alexh]

Originally Posted by gklinger

the Commodore 8 bit community are starting to see that limit.

Surely not? I've been looking for a C128D for years and never come across one at a sensible price. There is one on Ebay now. £50 ($100) starting price (below some reserve) not in great condition and it's partially broken!! It will probably go for over £100 ($200) even in this condition!

Never come across an Amstrad CPC 6128 Plus at a sensible price either!

Originally Posted by gklinger

A good example is the Commodore 1581 which is a 3.5" disk drive for the 8 bitters. all of us who are hardcore enough to know what a 1581 is have them already.

I'm sure that is more down more to the 1581-III disk emulator (and the other cartridge port alternatives) than demand! Why have a slow crappy 5.25" disk drive when you can get a fast disk drive emulator that uses disk images on SD cards!

[gklinger]

Originally Posted by alexh

Surely not?

Obviously it depends on the item and location. For instance, the SX-64 is quite common here and relatively scare in Europe. PETs are also way more common over here. You'll actually see them sitting on the side of the road waiting to be hauled away.

I've been looking for a C128D for years and never come across one at a sensible price.

Even you must admit that's most likely because your idea of a sensible price is lower than that which is commonly accepted. The current value of the 128D has dropped by about 30% in the last six months. Again, I'm only speaking for North America as that's where I live and 90% of the several hundred auctions I monitor at any given time are for items here in NA.

I'm sure that is more down more to the 1581-III disk emulator (and the other cartridge port alternatives) than demand!

Actually, that's the 1541-III (I have a couple) and it isn't analogous to the 1581 as it doesn't provide more than 170k of continuous storage. It isn't really an alternative to the 1541 either as it can't deal with anything with custom drive code (think fastloaders) which is the vast majority of 64 software out there. Neither can the MMC64 or the MMC Replay (those two can't even handle multiple-file loads) or the MMC2IEC or the SD2IEC or the, well, you get the idea. Then there is the uIEC but that's more like a hard drive replacement.

The only real disk drive replacement is the 1541 Ultimate (I'm involved with the development) which is the first device that allows a user to free themselves completely of a traditional disk drive and even so, its existence has no bearing on the demand for disk drives.

I respect your opinion immensely but you're on the outside looking in and I'm one of the more active guys in the 8 bit community. Trust me. This is one subject I'm actually qualified to speak about.

Why have a slow crappy 5.25" disk drive when you can get a fast disk drive emulator that uses disk images on SD cards!

Primarily because they're not replacements functionality-wise.

[klx300r]

@ Alexh
love that Amiga UK prices/ bio rythm? theory...good read..sounds like a good paper for sociology 101 in uni

@ gklinger
all valid points Golan though the market analysis for the Canadian/US seems to differ from European markets....

[Graham Humphrey]

Originally Posted by alexh

Anyone here 9 in 1994 with an A1200 as their first computer?

I was 8

Had an A600 rather than a 1200 though (Except if I'm being picky, I was 7 when we got that, and I was 5 when we got our old A500+...)

[tonyyeb]

Originally Posted by Graham Humphrey

I was 8

Had an A600 rather than a 1200 though (Except if I'm being picky, I was 7 when we got that, and I was 5 when we got our old A500+...)

Ok i'm not the youngest... Graham you are making me feel old!