Demobase Amiga Discussion

[Graham Humphrey]

EDIT: Threads merged

[sjakie43]

Thanx Graham !

[sjakie43]

Thanx Vortex !

I forgot to respond(wife was tickling me )

[paranoid]

Congrats on the marriage and I'd very much like to help. I've been a bit distracted lately, though. Hopefully soon I'll be able to give some time to this.

[sjakie43]

Thanx !

Hope so Paranoid !

[paranoid]

Been awhile, I know, but I'm ready to offer some serious support... If it would speed things up, I'm often in the irc channel (best result would be to send me a message so it flashes) if anyone wants to chat about this.

[paranoid]

I'm going to be working on Demobase for awhile. Mainly collecting information about the demos for the database. If anyone has any questions or offers of help, let me know. I think we're pretty settled on what info we want to include and I should have Gamebase looking more Demobase-ish soon (i.e. changing "trainers" to something more demo-appropriate).

[Photon]

sjakie, if you want you can talk to our team about cooperation. We're on #amigaexotic on ircnet. Maybe you want a certain "angle" on your database, but there IS a lot of information already stored in ours.

Sorting out the NON working Demos.

What do you mean by this? All demos work. Sometimes only on the setup they were coded on, but often on more setups and sometimes on all setups.

It would be nice with a database with "requires/supports" info. (Which "minimum"/oldest chipset, kickstart, or memory setup the demo must have to run correctly, and which setups are ALSO supported.)

[TCD]

Originally Posted by Photon

It would be nice with a database with "requires/supports" info. (Which "minimum"/oldest chipset, kickstart, or memory setup the demo must have to run correctly, and which setups are ALSO supported.)

Yep, that would be nice. Interested in the job Photon?

[paranoid]

(going to answer as best I can, though I know this wasn't addressed to me...)

Originally Posted by Photon

sjakie, if you want you can talk to our team about cooperation. We're on #amigaexotic on ircnet. Maybe you want a certain "angle" on your database, but there IS a lot of information already stored in ours.

News to me.. I had thought Demobase was the only thing like it, not including web-based databases that aren't quite the same thing.

What server? I just joined ircnet.com #amigaexotic and I'm the only one there... Also tried ircnet.org and chat.ircnet.org to no avail. xs4all doesn't connect as well...

Originally Posted by Photon

What do you mean by this? All demos work. Sometimes only on the setup they were coded on, but often on more setups and sometimes on all setups.

Just that they don't currently work with a particular WinUAE setup and need to be fixed, or that the image has a checksum fault, etc and won't boot.

Originally Posted by Photon

It would be nice with a database with "requires/supports" info. (Which "minimum"/oldest chipset, kickstart, or memory setup the demo must have to run correctly, and which setups are ALSO supported.)

Well, with strictly a database about Amiga demos, I'd agree.. But Demobase, like Gamebase, has the aim (as I see it, could be wrong) of a database of information on all demos, but also a front-end of sorts to an emulator, so with demos you have the file for, you double-click and it runs. So the concern of it also running on AGA, or only running on ECS 1 meg chip memory, 1.3 rom isn't really a concern apart from configuring the database so that it uses the ECS, 1 meg chip, 1.3 configuration to run.

At this point, Demobase has 17,994 demos (intros, etc) included. Around 14,000 have the demo itself. Gamebase has been configured to provide for information about the group, release date, coding, music, art, language, country, party info, place finished, OCS/ECS/AGA, NTSC/PAL, length, and if it works (within Demobase/WinUAE) (all this replacing game information...). The demos (for the most part) have the name and group, and about half have screenshots. The rest of the info is what I was going to work on next. There are still a lot of demos that can be added, but I wanted to gather data on what is there first (though that will take ages, I know).

I do feel like the wheel is being reinvented several times, but I think the aim of Demobase (not sure if it matches another project) is to have a stand alone (not web-based) database of all demos, so that they can be sorted in many ways (maybe you want all Scoopex demos, maybe all first place winners, maybe all Swedish demos, maybe all demos in Polish, maybe all the demos that were in the 4k entry for Breakpoint '92...) and in most (ideally, all) cases just double click to launch WinUAE to run them.

I'll keep trying to find #amigaexotic to see what's going on in the meantime.

[Photon]

Originally Posted by TheCyberDruid

Yep, that would be nice. Interested in the job Photon?

I've done some demos on BitWorld. But yes, it's a lot of work.

Usually though, assumptions can be made.

1) You can go by year to find out which kick/chipset was available. It's very likely that a demo released in 1986-87 requires Kick 1.2, and maybe is even A1000-only, and might frown upon fastmem/slowmem. 1988-89 is A500 kick 1.2 or 1.3, and might frown upon fastmem/slowmem. 1990-1993 is OCS and will usually work with fastmem and kick 1.2-2.0. 1993 to 2009...I dunno, if it doesn't start on your rig you have a too crappy Amiga?

2) Any OCS demo that works with non-chipmem installed also works on an AGA Amiga works on anything. Exception is demos without blitwaits. (Bobrecords etc.)

3) You can assume that demos are not backwards-compatible. Some are forward-compatible.

4) Anything released today is for AGA 060 16M and up, unless otherwise specified.

Hey, smiley selector in EAB needs a drunken master icon... I hear beer glasses are popular graphics these days

I'll take this instead then

[TCD]

About point 1 : Yep, always the best approach. Then tweak it if it won't run. Problem is to find if a file is broken or if you really have to tweak every setting (till you find the cause of the problem [if you have no 'guru' to help you])
About the rest : I think paranoid has given the point here. It's making the demos work, rather then listing the info about compatibility. If someone volunteers to do it, I'm sure sjakie43 would try to include the info, but it's not a priority. There are still quite a few (>3000) 'wanted' and ~600 'not working' demos, so that is the first objective for now.

[Photon]

Paranoid, first of all welcome to our channel and yes, there are some projects going on that need uhm advertising. We have some guys in our team interested in the "super database of everything" thing. Online or offline, a database is a database.

But there's two aspects (I'm probably being captain Obvious as always, still it's better to get to the basics instead of missing a basic aspect.):

1) Preservation (scanning & storage of files and storage of enough info to find that file with a reasonable search). Solution is lots of "harddisk" space and a big database.
2) To use what is preserved. Emulators to show the file, access to the file and info about the file by others than the admin.

File could be a demo, game, utility, music, or gfx.

When it comes to access, the databases and files can be anywhere on the internet. Where the link goes doesn't really matter to the one who cares about getting the file. Ofc mirrors are a good thing and people are already good at mirroring and offline backups.

So lots of files are already accessible, but some databases have only info (Break) and some have "only the file" (Pouet etc).


Anyway, I've typed too much already, so here it is:

1. Merging databases regularly is fine, lots of people from different projects contributing to a common superdatabase is unrealistic. Unless the skies are parted and a decree is passed unto mere humans, even deciding on the format of the db will take years, if it even happens.

2. Menace will suggest a common "demo id" on Bitfellas News at least. So you know a file is checksummed, ok, and the version you're looking for. [Edit: well, I got the idea that that's what his post was mainly about. Post is here anyway.]

3. I wanted to suggest to Toni Wilen to add "Open With OCSDEMOCONFIG" and "Open With AGADEMOCONFIG" in the right-click menu for certain formats that are downloadable from these sites. Like .lha, .exe, .adf.

What this gives is a Flashtro.Com-like ability to browse for demos and go "I want to see this!" without all the manual labour (well, for me it takes a minute or so, but for all the nice demofreax out there (and to-be-demofreax) that don't have all the knowledge/patience to make it work...

Third option also goes for coders of .mod players and maybe .iff viewers, but ofc if you can just get the damn demo to start you can see the gfx and hear the music..!

Signing off, Cap'n Obvious.

[TCD]

3. Have a look here : http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=45563 (especially post #24 ). Only the two options won't work anyway, but I get the idea.

[sjakie43]

Hi Fellas,

Thanx for the comments,more cooperation is surely needed!

I think This will be only a Offline Demobase for now,it's a good idea to
have it offline AND online in the near future,thats my idea.

Paranoid has lots of work to do atm,Andreas is looking into
the Section"Not Working Demos) and TCD is looking for some missing demos.(if he can find the time,thats no prob TCD ).

But surely some discussion is a good thing,I have talked with Paranoid
about merging MDB's and maybe Photon can give us a clue about this.

We also need some icon replacements and some splashscreens,may in the future a Demobase dedicated site?().

I have to work this weekend and from wednesday on i will try to make some time to discuss with Photon etc on Irc.

I have to go,wife comes home from work in a short while

Have a good night and i'll check EAB tomorrow.

[paranoid]

Well, from the looks of things, Gamebase and the database are finished as far as being ready to accept info about demos so the task now is to populate it with data, coder, release date etc.

And that's where I'm a little unsure of the best way, once shakie43 resumes work on this. Anyone know if it's possible for something like.. We start with copies of the same database, one adds info starting at the A's, while the other starts with demos that start with M (or however it is coordinated) then merge them all into one database again that has the additions/changes from both databases? Perhaps some SQL script that just pulls A-L from one, and M-Z from the other? (well there's also the other tables, but that idea anyway.. My SQL is pretty rusty..)

[sjakie43]

I've asked Mad from the GB64 team if he can help us out with merging
I don't know if he has the time for it though.
Let's wait and see....


Regards

[sjakie43]

Hi All,

I got me answer!

Mad wrote:


this can be done using Microsoft Access 2003.

it's a bit complicated to explain...
all i need to do is copy the File filter column (which points to the file position on the d64 disk)
as all the other info is the same and we are working on the same mdb file.

!!for a group task!!
it will only work if you all stick to one column each and don't delete or change others.
(even if you do this by mistake, it won't work)

first you need to create a gamebase with all the games/demos you are going to add.
this can be done using datamaker to create a Romcenter dat file for your collection.
and import that into gamebase using the Gamebase Toolbox.
Now use the Gamebase Toolbox to scan and fix errors.

Depending on what you want you can either

add every programmer, pulisher, musician and cracker from a list into the MDB (like i did with the demos)
and distribute that to be worked on strictly using only the data you provided in it.
now anyone can add the correct programmer ect from that list already in the gamebase.
but don't overlap each others work (a-m) (n-z)

or get teams to stick to certain tasks....
team 1 - date, Programmers, Publisher
team 2 - Musician, and sids
team 3 - Extras

every team can change data to these... (as long as they do not add new subject or item)
Language, joystick port, game genere, players, notes, trainers, hi-score, rating pal /ntsc
true drive emulation, inc docs.

then when everyone is done..
collect all the MDBs (get each team to rename the MBD as they all will have the same name)
load Access and paste the column from each teams work into one (your Master) MDB.
then using gamebase toolbox, use the option scan and fix errors.

or you could get teams to create lists by adding the data for one subject (Publisher) to the "Game Comment"
and another (programmers) to the "Version Comment"
then they can be sorted a-z and pasted into the publisher and programmer lists.
then one person to add the PU_ID and PR_ID for every game from the generated list.

That sounds mental when i read it back!



So, i get it ....partial

Regards

[paranoid]

Doing A-M N-Z and just cutting and pasting seems probably the simplest idea.

One thing, though, is that having someone do programmer and someone else do music seems terribly inefficient. Perhaps for GB64 it was different because the info needed more research, but for Demobase, others have already done that.. So you pull up info on 100 Earth Bobs and you get it all right there. Having someone else pull up 100 Earth Bobs for musician wouldn't make a lot of sense.

But I should have thought of cutting and pasting. I didn't think about doing that across multiple databases, though for as many times as Access has complained about the clipboard, I should have.

[sjakie43]

Hi all,

I'm not sure but it seems like Paranoid has disappeared!\

As for as i know he has done some serious work/adding info
on Demobase Amiga.

Before he started this,i've done some configuring and atm
there are more than 10.000 demos configured with screenshot(s).

So i thought i was time to do some more configuring>?

Yess,thats's the problem here,Paranoid has never sent me any work
dispite the fact that i asked him to send me .....

Now he doesn't respond to my Emails and i really want to
continue this Demobase,ergg

I realise that as soon as i continue i CANNOT add his work cause
the Database file cannot be changedadded if things have changed in the MDB.

I hope he turns up soon otherwise i have no choice.

I hope someone bumps into him somewhere...

Regards
Sjakie43