Time to go all the way - 128GB

[IvanEBC]

Hi Everyone.

When i started playing with real Amigas again a year ago, i got the CF adaptors and started at 4gb, then 8gb, then 16, and when i got the 32gb, i thought - that's it, i won't need anymore room than that
*SLAPS SELF*

OK, so now i'm thinking, on my Amiga 4000 and Amiga 1200, both using CF readers, i want to go all the way and just get 128gb. Both those Amigas are KS & OS3.1, and i will be looking at trying out OS 3.5 or 3.9.

I know there's alot of info around, much of it covered, but after an hour, i hadn't really seen any direct answers to my questions, so here goes.

1> I currently use Sandisk Ultra cards (32gb/Mostly Silver label with a red bar along the bottom, but i can't find these in 128gb size, so is there a suggested brand and model i should be looking at?

2>A4000/040/VA2000/300mb ram and A1200 with ACA030/Indivision/128mb ram - should i be looking at 3.5 or 3.9? I want a modern pretty Amiga like i see around with pretty wallpapers and WHDload still working.

3> I've got "okay" at setting up CF cards, can be a bit messy but i get the job done eventually, but if i'm messing with 128gb, i imagine i'll run into new challenges and wish to know what pitfalls i might run into.

I'm looking creating something like a 4gb DH0:/60gb DH1:/60gb DH2:
If i decide the alter those sizes, are there limits on a per partiion size i should be aware of, is this generally a bad idea? How does one get blood out of shirts?

Man - 128gb cards are stupid expensive.

Thanks!

[Toryglen-boy]

Originally Posted by IvanEBC

Hi Everyone.

When i started playing with real Amigas again a year ago, i got the CF adaptors and started at 4gb, then 8gb, then 16, and when i got the 32gb, i thought - that's it, i won't need anymore room than that
*SLAPS SELF*

OK, so now i'm thinking, on my Amiga 4000 and Amiga 1200, both using CF readers, i want to go all the way and just get 128gb. Both those Amigas are KS & OS3.1, and i will be looking at trying out OS 3.5 or 3.9.

I know there's alot of info around, much of it covered, but after an hour, i hadn't really seen any direct answers to my questions, so here goes.

1> I currently use Sandisk Ultra cards (32gb/Mostly Silver label with a red bar along the bottom, but i can't find these in 128gb size, so is there a suggested brand and model i should be looking at?

2>A4000/040/VA2000/300mb ram and A1200 with ACA030/Indivision/128mb ram - should i be looking at 3.5 or 3.9? I want a modern pretty Amiga like i see around with pretty wallpapers and WHDload still working.

3> I've got "okay" at setting up CF cards, can be a bit messy but i get the job done eventually, but if i'm messing with 128gb, i imagine i'll run into new challenges and wish to know what pitfalls i might run into.

I'm looking creating something like a 4gb DH0:/60gb DH1:/60gb DH2:
If i decide the alter those sizes, are there limits on a per partiion size i should be aware of, is this generally a bad idea? How does one get blood out of shirts?

Man - 128gb cards are stupid expensive.

Thanks!

Hello!!

take my advice, from someone who has tried it. i Know your going to OS3.9 to get a bigger drive, and i get that, but OS3.9 will crawl on your hardware, with a 68040 @40Mhz its ok to use, with a 68060 @80Mhz its really quite fast. On the A4000, not so much, but on the A1200, and i assume your using something like an ACA1230, 1231, 1233, 1233n etc. that is, a card i with a 68030 @40mhz, its still not fantastic, at all. Cutting colours down to 16 helps, but its not great


why do you honestly need 128Gb ???

[indigolemon]

I ran 3.9 on my Blizzard 1230IV for years in 64 colours, and it was useable. Obviously you get the relevant tweaks in place, FBlit etc - but it is useable!

You should have a look at this thread (stickied in this section): http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=61666

[Daedalus]

Originally Posted by IvanEBC

1> I currently use Sandisk Ultra cards (32gb/Mostly Silver label with a red bar along the bottom, but i can't find these in 128gb size, so is there a suggested brand and model i should be looking at?

What about these ones? CF card compatibility is generally down to luck as much as anything else, but the Sandisk cards in general seem to be quite compatible.

2>A4000/040/VA2000/300mb ram and A1200 with ACA030/Indivision/128mb ram - should i be looking at 3.5 or 3.9? I want a modern pretty Amiga like i see around with pretty wallpapers and WHDload still working.

If you're thinking of going beyond 3.1, then go for 3.9. 3.5 is sort of a stepping stone to 3.9 with no real advantages.

A lot of people say that 3.9 is slower, but that's usually down to a few key things that are worth understanding:

First, it loads replacements for many parts of the OS that are normally kept in Kickstart, and needs to reboot to use the replacement modules instead of the ROM. This adds some time to the boot process, but adds a lot of new features and bugfixes to the system (such as large hard drive support), which makes the delay worthwhile.

Second, a lot of extra programs are loaded during startup, such as AmiDock, Benchtrash, AsyncWB and various other add-ons. Again, these all add to the boot process. They do however add a lot of nice quality-of-life improvements to the system which, for me personally, make the experience far more pleasant than using a 3.1 setup, and again, that makes the longer boot time well worthwhile IMHO.

Finally, OS 3.9 comes with nicely coloured icons and backdrops, and so requires a higher coloured screen than a plain 3.1 setup. Adding more colours to a screenmode always slows things down on an Amiga, though this isn't an OS 3.9-specific thing really - you can add colourful icons, backdrops and the required screenmodes to a 3.1 installation as well, and it will probably be just as slow as a 3.9 setup. Likewise, if you set 3.9 to use a 4-colour screen, it will run like greased lightning (though it will look pretty rank).

Bottom line, you can install 3.9 on one partition, 3.1 on another, and switch whichever one you want to default to by changing their boot priorities in HDToolbox, or even just selecting the partition you want in the early startup options. That way, if 3.9 is not to your taste, you can switch to 3.1 and carry on, leaving 3.9 intact should you ever want to go back to it or use the 3.9 HDToolbox for example. Just remember that 3.1 will also need the patches for reading the large partitions, and that you should cold boot when switching OS.

3> I've got "okay" at setting up CF cards, can be a bit messy but i get the job done eventually, but if i'm messing with 128gb, i imagine i'll run into new challenges and wish to know what pitfalls i might run into.

They're no different really to using a 32GB card - if you can do that, you can use a 128GB card. Worth bearing in mind though is that industrial DOMs and proper PATA SSDs do exist as well and might even be cheaper if you can find one. OS 3.9 supports large hard drives from the get-go, so starting with it might help make the process smoother.

Going beyond 128GB requires a little more care but still can be done with the appropriate selection of scsi.device and filesystem in much the same way as a 32GB card.

I'm looking creating something like a 4gb DH0:/60gb DH1:/60gb DH2:
If i decide the alter those sizes, are there limits on a per partiion size i should be aware of, is this generally a bad idea?

I generally keep my system partition quite small, meaning I can have multiples of it in case something goes wrong, or keep 3.1 and 3.9 setups in parallel for example, so I would suggest keeping it to 250MB or so. Anything beyond that can be any size you wish, up to the limits of the filesystem you use. OS 3.9's FFS has a limit of 2TB, but I'd recommend using SFS or PFS instead - both have a limit of 128GB which is still plenty.

How does one get blood out of shirts?

Saliva followed by soap and cold water, or petrol and matches

Man - 128gb cards are stupid expensive.

Yep. Do you *really* need to use one though? A 120GB mechanical hard drive should be a lot cheaper and will work just as well. The speed advantage of an SSD in an Amiga isn't huge - mechanical hard drives are easily able to outpace the A1200's IDE port on transfers and the seek times on a modern drive are decent too.

[IvanEBC]

So much good info here and thanks for the replies... I'm not going to use the quote system, as it'll take me forever and i got places to me (ok ok, it means i want to go and play on my PS4 haha)

Some answers: Why do i want 128gb? Cause i can. Each time i went up a size, i figured i'd never use it.... the dh1: 28gb size or whatever it works out to is just WHDload games and demos, and alot of demos and games from non whdload sources. That's pretty much it, and there's no way i'm complete as their so much i want to see, i go to retro meets and they are showing off 2017 demos ... my RTG card is abot to arrive, MORE... BIGGER ... DEMOS and games.
The moarchive just released its 2016 updates..... 10gb of mods? i have 20 files in my music directory, i want to leave it on shuffle and hear again.... and i just discovered scummAGA.... forget checking that out.

Daedalus

I intend to keep my 3.1 and (sounds like 3.9) on seperate cards. I'll keep the 32gb where it is, use it as a classic machine with whdload only, and use the second card - 128gb as the be all and end all of cards, i simply swap them over (easy on a4000 since i installed the cf card into a floppy drive ).

I also completely forgot, i use a leftover 4gb card and did a test install of 3.9, i didn't look much into it but will spend some time while deciding to buy the 128gb card to get a feel for it, hopefully when the va2000 arrives as well, it should help speed it up (that's my hope anyways).

I guess the setting up should be easier with 3.9 if the support is more natural, so i might play with the 3.9 setup for a bit, see how it runs in high resolutions and fancy look before deciding to buy the card and do some permanent setup.

Thank you all of you for advice.

I don't want a mechanical HDD, i even have some but ... noise ....easy removal ..... longevity...

and lastly .. saliva - really?

[Daedalus]

Originally Posted by IvanEBC

Some answers: Why do i want 128gb? Cause i can.

Yep, that's the Amiga way From memory I have 200GB of storage in one of my A1200s, 120 GB in another and 60GB in another. No fear of ever filling them, but "just because" is as good a reason as any to have them.

I intend to keep my 3.1 and (sounds like 3.9) on seperate cards. I'll keep the 32gb where it is, use it as a classic machine with whdload only, and use the second card - 128gb as the be all and end all of cards, i simply swap them over (easy on a4000 since i installed the cf card into a floppy drive ).

Good plan. Just bear in mind that there are minor differences between the two machines that might need consideration - RTG drivers causing startup errors on the non-RTG A1200 for example. Nothing that's a major problem, but just keep it in mind.

I also completely forgot, i use a leftover 4gb card and did a test install of 3.9, i didn't look much into it but will spend some time while deciding to buy the 128gb card to get a feel for it, hopefully when the va2000 arrives as well, it should help speed it up (that's my hope anyways).

4GB is plenty to get a feel of things, and the va2000 will help a lot when it comes to having a colourful Workbench, either with 3.1 or 3.9.

I guess the setting up should be easier with 3.9 if the support is more natural, so i might play with the 3.9 setup for a bit, see how it runs in high resolutions and fancy look before deciding to buy the card and do some permanent setup.

Yep, it is a lot easier indeed, though not without its issues. Naturally, the first partition still needs to be fully below 4GB because it needs to load 3.9 from there before rebooting into 3.9. And you still need to install the filesystem you want to use before you format your partitions, so make sure you have SFS or PFS on the emergency boot floppy or somewhere else easily accessible.

I don't want a mechanical HDD, i even have some but ... noise ....easy removal ..... longevity...

Yep - all good reasons.

and lastly .. saliva - really?

Hehe, well it contains enzymes that break down some of the clotting factors in blood, which means that the blood doesn't become a permanent stain by clotting into the fabric and thus allowing normal soap and water to wash it away. Cold water also slows down the reactions involved and so reduces the tendency to permanently clot.

(My background is in developing automated blood analysis equipment )

[th4t1guy]

Don't they make IDE to SD card adapters now? 128gb SD card should be about half the price of a CF card.

[Amiga1992]

You need a balancing opinion, so I would not go with 3.9 or get anything bigger than regular patched 3.1 can handle. It's a huge headache to keep it all running and adds a load of bloat that gets in the way of other things to do. Is it games that you mostly do in the Amiga? If so, you don't want the system to get in the way.

Now if you intend to use your Amiga for everyday tasks (why? :P), then yeah, you have to upgrade the OS and get a huge CF in there.

[nogginthenog]

Another option is a mSATA to IDE converter. I've got one that mounts in an A4000 zorro slot (doesn't use zorro).

This the one I have:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00J3XT7E0

[EzdineG]

Originally Posted by Toryglen-boy

Hello!!

take my advice, from someone who has tried it. i Know your going to OS3.9 to get a bigger drive, and i get that, but OS3.9 will crawl on your hardware, with a 68040 @40Mhz its ok to use, with a 68060 @80Mhz its really quite fast. On the A4000, not so much, but on the A1200, and i assume your using something like an ACA1230, 1231, 1233, 1233n etc. that is, a card i with a 68030 @40mhz, its still not fantastic, at all. Cutting colours down to 16 helps, but its not great

why do you honestly need 128Gb ???

I've recently "upgraded" my A600 w/Furia 020 from ClassicWB 3.1 to ClassicWB 3.9. It is now unbearably slow - even after maprom, etc.. Going to have to go back.

Thanks for laying it out there. You're doing god's work, sir.

[Sinphaltimus]

Someone suggested to me and I did it and I'm happy so maybe you will be too. Get a cf type ii to sd card adapter this way you can buy 128gb sd card and never worry about cf again.

Here's the one I purchased.

Digigear SDXCF SD SDHC SDXC to CF Type II Extreme/Ultimate Compact Flash Card Adapter, Note Not for CF Type One Slot https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00EPMWT1M..._YO3hLECuQpXpL

[Toryglen-boy]

Originally Posted by th4t1guy

Don't they make IDE to SD card adapters now? 128gb SD card should be about half the price of a CF card.

yeah, but am pretty sure they dont work in the same way, Sandisk CF cards, are UDMA compliant, and work like a standard hard drive, am pretty sure SD cards are ok to use, but are slightly slower, as alot of the smoke and witchcraft is done by the CPU etc.

i could be talking complete shite of course,

[Toryglen-boy]

Originally Posted by EzdineG

I've recently "upgraded" my A600 w/Furia 020 from ClassicWB 3.1 to ClassicWB 3.9. It is now unbearably slow - even after maprom, etc.. Going to have to go back.

Thanks for laying it out there. You're doing god's work, sir.

you're welcome my friend, sometimes this place gets a bit confrontational, with everyone waving their e-penis around, and it winds me up, but i love being part of this community.

I can report, OS3.9 on an A600, with a V2, is a different experience altogether.

[grelbfarlk]

Or why not an IDE to SATA adapter with an SSD? I paid about $30 for a 120GB SATA SSD recently. With a $5 IDE to SATA adapter I then have a SCSI to IDE adapter I got the SCSI to IDE adapters cheap but they are expensive now which doesn't matter if you're not using SCSI.

[th4t1guy]

Originally Posted by grelbfarlk

Or why not an IDE to SATA adapter with an SSD? I paid about $30 for a 120GB SATA SSD recently. With a $5 IDE to SATA adapter I then have a SCSI to IDE adapter I got the SCSI to IDE adapters cheap but they are expensive now which doesn't matter if you're not using SCSI.

Only con I can think of is that I believe power consumption is a bit less on a CF card. On the flipside, CF doesn't support TRIM, but I doubt that would really be much of a concern on the Amiga.

[Toryglen-boy]

Originally Posted by grelbfarlk

Or why not an IDE to SATA adapter with an SSD? I paid about $30 for a 120GB SATA SSD recently. With a $5 IDE to SATA adapter I then have a SCSI to IDE adapter I got the SCSI to IDE adapters cheap but they are expensive now which doesn't matter if you're not using SCSI.

its a size issue, a Furia, or a Vampire II cover the heard drive bay, and so a CF card that dangles in the air, is far more convenient

[grelbfarlk]

Originally Posted by Toryglen-boy

its a size issue, a Furia, or a Vampire II cover the heard drive bay, and so a CF card that dangles in the air, is far more convenient

But the CF card that "dangles in the air" is on a cable, you can run the IDE cable to wherever is convenient. Some CF adapters are very small but most of them are only a little bit bigger than a SATA SSD+adapter. I could see wanting CF for removable storage but if it's going to cost 2-3x what an SSD would then I don't see the benefit to CF if you can find some place to locate an SATA SSD.

[idrougge]

Originally Posted by EzdineG

I've recently "upgraded" my A600 w/Furia 020 from ClassicWB 3.1 to ClassicWB 3.9. It is now unbearably slow - even after maprom, etc.. Going to have to go back.

Thanks for laying it out there. You're doing god's work, sir.

Don't blame 3.9, blame ClassicWB.

[Toryglen-boy]

Originally Posted by idrougge

Don't blame 3.9, blame ClassicWB.

for what? being quicker, and having a smaller footprint?

[Daedalus]

Is it quicker really? It was a while ago when I tried these various "distros", but I don't remember any of them being quicker.

And as for footprint, maybe that was relevant 25 years ago in the times of 120MB hard drives, but even a seriously heavy 3.9 installation takes up around ~0.1% of a 128GB CF card.