Emulation vs the Real Thing

shillard · 11 May 2007, 14:33

Ok,

I'm sitting here looking at the amount of space absorbed by my beloved A4000 setup, and seriously pissed because....

1. I can't take it with me when I travel - and I travel a lot.
2. I can't haul it into the loungeroom to play CIV AGA there.
3. The power supply whines like a bitch compared to my work laptop.
4. Having built and used the damn thing up from scratch - what's next? It's not like I can find more and better hardware to sink into it, or obtain great new games and apps.....

So - my question to my esteemed and learned brethren - just how good is this emulation shit?

Does winUAE really pack the gear? Can I ....

1) Play Frontier with a microswitched joystick?
2) Play CIV AGA, Exodus: The last war and Dune II?
3) Run Final Writer?
4) Run Spot to relive my FidoNet days?
5) Run Directory Opus?

Just how much of a bitch is it to setup, and how solid is the emulation?

The final question: Do I split up and sell my beloved gear, and rever to the eternal life of emulation?

Thoughts, opinions - welcome.....

Hungry Horace · 11 May 2007, 14:41

oh god, this again.

IMHO... emulation is great. Convinient for gaming in different environs (as you want to do), practical for performing mudane OS based tasks, and coupling it with PC-based storage and backing up... (great if you dont have a really high spec miggy with CD/DVD burner etc)

however..... performance wise... it isnt quite the same, but that's not to say its rubbish.
Frontier is great, becasue you can slap JIT on and play it super-smooth... but compare most games on winuae, to how they run on my a1200 030... and it's just not quite the same. Good enough, but not quite "right".... this coupled with the fact that audio apps like octamed are a bit rubbish on winuae (the midi lag is terrible for example) mean i would never get rid of my original hardware... in spite of the fact i tend to use emualtion a lot these days.... probably largely becasue of the PS2 pads i have on my PC.

it's easy to set up for emualtion... i would suggest you just try it and decide for yourself

seuden · 11 May 2007, 14:47

It's not gonna cost you to try emulation, i would definitely recommend it

. I have had to put my amiga away due to space but i still enjoy playing games thanks to winuae.

11 May 2007, 14:56

I think, sound emulation is still bad in WinUae and not comparable to the Original Amiga.
The best feeling comes by using the real machine.

Ironclaw · 11 May 2007, 15:11

For me, emulation is much better than the real thing, and costs nothing, only a decent PC which most people have anyway..... The benefits of using is endless... some:

* Winuae takes up NO space.. as it's just a program on your PC....
*Download games and play them directly with the adfs
*Super fast emulation... games like quake 2 ruins fluidly while you would need a super amiga (costs alot) to be able to play it as as good as in winuae.
*Save/load states!!!
*Recording
*It has built it..... like mentioned before, recording, and also sound/music ripper, screenshot grabber etc etc etc....
*As much harddrive space you could ever need (if you have enough space on your PC HD that is)
*FASTER DISK LOADING!!!!
*If you use a laptop like me, it's a portable Amiga 500/600/1200/2000/3000 etc/PC/any other emulator there is for PC considering it's a PC laptop)
*Select any screen resolution.... stretch the screen... or apply filters....

more and more and more and more and more.... WinUAE RULES!!!!..... TONI IS GOD!1!!

My 15.2 cents.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freundchen

I think, sound emulation is still bad in WinUae and not comparable to the Original Amiga.

The best feeling comes by using the real machine.

Bad?... it sounds perfect... even better is some cases as you can mix with the sound for better stuff.

DamienD · 11 May 2007, 15:15

No real Amiga for me anymore due to space, cost etc...

I've been using WinUAE since 0.8.22R9 came out (2003 I think) and it's absolutely awesome IMHO

Ironclaw has listed quite alot of the benefits already

boing_1000 · 11 May 2007, 15:32

The emulation has certainly come a long way and differences are hardly that noticable to me anymore. But using the real thing has a certain flare that you can't deny.

Ultron · 11 May 2007, 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironclaw

Bad?... it sounds perfect... even better is some cases as you can mix with the sound for better stuff.

Can't really put my finger on it but i also agree that the sound just doesn't sound like an Amiga. I still think Winfellow does a better job at it, it actually sounds and feels like an Amiga.

Retro-Nerd · 11 May 2007, 15:43

There is already a thread about this question.

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=28647

Ultron · 11 May 2007, 15:57

And a whole of three posts! What bountiful of information! What lighthouse of Alexandria! What miraculous instantaneous explosion of knowledge! The muses of retrogaming surely inhabit the place!

microslave · 11 May 2007, 15:58

Emulation vs. the Real Think seems like pragmatism vs. nostalgia. I LOVE my old Amiga 1000, but since I travel alot (5 days a week away from home currently) it's so great to have an emulated Amiga on board along with literally thousands of games and apps.
Of course emulation sometimes lacks the feeling of authenticity, but after all I'd never want to do without it. I hope my old A1000 will forgive me! Sorry ;-)

Retro-Nerd · 11 May 2007, 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultron

And a whole of three posts! What bountiful of information! What lighthouse of Alexandria! What miraculous instantaneous explosion of knowledge! The muses of retrogaming surely inhabit the place!

You sucks, Ultron. everbody knows it.

Marcuz · 11 May 2007, 16:06

yeah merge the threads please you mods that be

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=7791
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=12602
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=3360
even:
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=3272
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=11761

one or all...

oh! and please, DO NOT learn to use the search function guys

Hungry Horace · 11 May 2007, 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironclaw

* Winuae takes up NO space.. as it's just a program on your PC....

which means it crashes a lot more than a real amiga.

Quote:

*Download games and play them directly with the adfs

ADFs are slow, full of annoying cractros, and often require a specific winuae setup to run. this is why i will use WHDLoad even on winuae rather than adfs.

Quote:

*Super fast emulation... games like quake 2 ruins fluidly while you would need a super amiga (costs alot) to be able to play it as as good as in winuae.

as i said above, perfect for frontier, quake, et al. but have you compared games like Pinball Illusions, or even New Zealand Story?

the very nature of being a PC and all the refresh-rate malarky causes the scrolling to be worse.

Quote:

*Save/load states!!!

dont work with HD emualtion

Quote:

*Recording
*It has built it..... like mentioned before, recording, and also sound/music ripper, screenshot grabber etc etc etc....
*As much harddrive space you could ever need (if you have enough space on your PC HD that is)
*FASTER DISK LOADING!!!!
*If you use a laptop like me, it's a portable Amiga 500/600/1200/2000/3000 etc/PC/any other emulator there is for PC considering it's a PC laptop)
*Select any screen resolution.... stretch the screen... or apply filters....

those are all good points.

i dont mean to pick apart your comments, but there are valid reasons for and against emulation... and no one has the right to say really that either is "better" - its down to the requirements/standards of the user at the end of it all.

and that's just my x.y cents.

Quote:

Bad?... it sounds perfect... even better is some cases as you can mix with the sound for better stuff.

i can only assume you have never tried to use winuae for professional sound work. it does NOT cut it,as much as id like it to - and it's true it doesnt sound quite the same

Ultron · 11 May 2007, 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hungry Horace

which means it crashes a lot more than a real amiga.

For the love of god. I've had W2000 and XP boxes running months on end, with continuous use, multiple apps, and serving DC hubs, FTPs, www, you name it. The Amiga doesn't even have Memory Protection.

Quote:

the very nature of being a PC and all the refresh-rate malarky causes the scrolling to be worse.

Every PC can run at 100mhz these days. Problem solved. Honestly. It's not even one.

killergorilla · 11 May 2007, 17:33

My PC monitor won't do 100Hz

Retro-Nerd · 11 May 2007, 17:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultron

Every PC can run at 100mhz these days. Problem solved. Honestly. It's not even one.

NTSC 60 Hz games scrolls totally smooth in every emulator with a 60 Hz refreshrate. But PAL 50 Hz games have a blur effect in emulation, because you use a 100 Hz refreshrate. It is not comparable to a real 50 Hz TV.

Bamiga2002 · 11 May 2007, 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by shillard

Ok,

I'm sitting here looking at the amount of space absorbed by my beloved A4000 setup, and seriously pissed because....

Ok ok i leave the "rant" out of the quote and just asking your A4000-specs. Go ahead, list all the gear your A4000 has eaten

. Don't forget to hype the "highlights" too

.

Doc Mindie · 11 May 2007, 17:55

Personal opinions follows:

WinUAE is GREAT for CPU demanding programs like 3D-rendering and DTP. I mean.... it feels like having a 68040 running at 1GHz or there abouts.

For games however..... I don't think it "feels" right..... screen is too "crisp" and so is the sound. Though this may be a problem of the gfx-card and screen, and of course the soundcard, not with WinUAE itself

So... what is the best option? For me, it's entirely up to the task at hand. for some things, I'll be happy to use the emulated Amiga. For others, I swear to my Real Amiga. It's what you prefer yourself... there's no conclusive answer, IMO.

My best advice would be "Try to run the same programme/game on both, and see what you prefer yourself"

killergorilla · 11 May 2007, 17:57

My advice would be:

1. Get an A1200 030 32mb and whdload and a shit load of games. PLAY.
2. Use WinUAE when someone else is using the A1200.
3. Stop playing Quake in WinUAE.
4. Don't spill Coke on your A1200.

11 May 2007, 14:33	#1
shillard Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Newcastle / Australia Posts: 143	Emulation vs the Real Thing Ok, I'm sitting here looking at the amount of space absorbed by my beloved A4000 setup, and seriously pissed because.... 1. I can't take it with me when I travel - and I travel a lot. 2. I can't haul it into the loungeroom to play CIV AGA there. 3. The power supply whines like a bitch compared to my work laptop. 4. Having built and used the damn thing up from scratch - what's next? It's not like I can find more and better hardware to sink into it, or obtain great new games and apps..... So - my question to my esteemed and learned brethren - just how good is this emulation shit? Does winUAE really pack the gear? Can I .... 1) Play Frontier with a microswitched joystick? 2) Play CIV AGA, Exodus: The last war and Dune II? 3) Run Final Writer? 4) Run Spot to relive my FidoNet days? 5) Run Directory Opus? Just how much of a bitch is it to setup, and how solid is the emulation? The final question: Do I split up and sell my beloved gear, and rever to the eternal life of emulation? Thoughts, opinions - welcome.....

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11 May 2007, 14:41	#2
Hungry Horace Wipe-Out Enthusiast Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: . Age: 43 Posts: 2,538	oh god, this again. IMHO... emulation is great. Convinient for gaming in different environs (as you want to do), practical for performing mudane OS based tasks, and coupling it with PC-based storage and backing up... (great if you dont have a really high spec miggy with CD/DVD burner etc) however..... performance wise... it isnt quite the same, but that's not to say its rubbish. Frontier is great, becasue you can slap JIT on and play it super-smooth... but compare most games on winuae, to how they run on my a1200 030... and it's just not quite the same. Good enough, but not quite "right".... this coupled with the fact that audio apps like octamed are a bit rubbish on winuae (the midi lag is terrible for example) mean i would never get rid of my original hardware... in spite of the fact i tend to use emualtion a lot these days.... probably largely becasue of the PS2 pads i have on my PC. it's easy to set up for emualtion... i would suggest you just try it and decide for yourself

11 May 2007, 14:47	#3
seuden uber cool demi god Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Kent/England Posts: 2,073	It's not gonna cost you to try emulation, i would definitely recommend it . I have had to put my amiga away due to space but i still enjoy playing games thanks to winuae.

11 May 2007, 14:56	#4
Freundchen Posts: n/a	I think, sound emulation is still bad in WinUae and not comparable to the Original Amiga. The best feeling comes by using the real machine.

11 May 2007, 15:15	#6
DamienD Banned Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: London / Sydney Age: 47 Posts: 20,420	No real Amiga for me anymore due to space, cost etc... I've been using WinUAE since 0.8.22R9 came out (2003 I think) and it's absolutely awesome IMHO Ironclaw has listed quite alot of the benefits already

11 May 2007, 15:32	#7
boing_1000 A1000 Addict Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Eastern USA Age: 37 Posts: 567	The emulation has certainly come a long way and differences are hardly that noticable to me anymore. But using the real thing has a certain flare that you can't deny.

11 May 2007, 15:43	#9
Retro-Nerd Missile Command Champion Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Germany Age: 52 Posts: 12,447	There is already a thread about this question. http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=28647

11 May 2007, 15:57	#10
Ultron Something Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Amigaland, Nostalgia Age: 48 Posts: 757	And a whole of three posts! What bountiful of information! What lighthouse of Alexandria! What miraculous instantaneous explosion of knowledge! The muses of retrogaming surely inhabit the place!

11 May 2007, 15:58	#11
microslave Amiga 1000 [1986] Join Date: May 2005 Location: Mönchengladbach/Germany Age: 52 Posts: 62	Emulation vs. the Real Think seems like pragmatism vs. nostalgia. I LOVE my old Amiga 1000, but since I travel alot (5 days a week away from home currently) it's so great to have an emulated Amiga on board along with literally thousands of games and apps. Of course emulation sometimes lacks the feeling of authenticity, but after all I'd never want to do without it. I hope my old A1000 will forgive me! Sorry ;-)

11 May 2007, 16:06	#13
Marcuz Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: . Age: 48 Posts: 5,562	yeah merge the threads please you mods that be http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=7791 http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=12602 http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=3360 even: http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=3272 http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=11761 one or all... oh! and please, DO NOT learn to use the search function guys

11 May 2007, 17:33	#16
killergorilla Lesser Talent Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: UK Age: 42 Posts: 7,957	My PC monitor won't do 100Hz

11 May 2007, 17:55	#19
Doc Mindie In deep Trouble Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Manchester, Made in Norway Age: 51 Posts: 841	Personal opinions follows: WinUAE is GREAT for CPU demanding programs like 3D-rendering and DTP. I mean.... it feels like having a 68040 running at 1GHz or there abouts. For games however..... I don't think it "feels" right..... screen is too "crisp" and so is the sound. Though this may be a problem of the gfx-card and screen, and of course the soundcard, not with WinUAE itself So... what is the best option? For me, it's entirely up to the task at hand. for some things, I'll be happy to use the emulated Amiga. For others, I swear to my Real Amiga. It's what you prefer yourself... there's no conclusive answer, IMO. My best advice would be "Try to run the same programme/game on both, and see what you prefer yourself"

11 May 2007, 17:57	#20
killergorilla Lesser Talent Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: UK Age: 42 Posts: 7,957	My advice would be: 1. Get an A1200 030 32mb and whdload and a shit load of games. PLAY. 2. Use WinUAE when someone else is using the A1200. 3. Stop playing Quake in WinUAE. 4. Don't spill Coke on your A1200.

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