Better Outrun port for Amiga

[dlfrsilver]

Originally Posted by ReadOnlyCat

I am a bit surprised that the background would be planar given that these layers are tile based. There is little advantage to defining tiles content using a planar layout and the MegaDrive/Genesis uses chunky pixels for tile content for example. Do you have a link to your source?

Also it would not be too hard to create custom sprite viewers by changing the palette with the copper. It would be easy to display several sprites per scanline provided the underlying palette is changed on the fly.
Zoomed in full color versions could also use copper chunky.

There are plenty of ways to display high color content on OCS Amigas if one is willing to build dedicated viewers.

mame doesn't support chunky graphics. That's why no sega arcade game can have its sprites visible inside mame.

If you want to see the sprites, go to the outrun disassembly website, there is a tool which allows to save the sprites in BMP, but alas it doesn't work with all sega games.

You should be able to get the golden axe sprites, or afterburner ones.

[eXeler0]

So... Anyone checked this out then?

http://www.os4depot.net/?function=sh...cannonball.lha

https://github.com/djyt/cannonball

[saimon69]

@eXeler0

Was cited in another similar thread (mine), so i guess even if the code (c++) could not be used at least the graphic can be taken from there and adapted.

[ReadOnlyCat]

Originally Posted by eXeler0

@ ReadOnlyCat hypothetically speaking of course ;-) How would you go about this... if you'd reverse engineer a game and extract assets to get the most faithful port possible (never mind OutRun.. in general)

I enjoy disassembling short segments of code for very specific purposes (when I'm debugging for example) but dealing with entire programs in order to extract graphic assets is a no go. I would rather instrument the Mame code at the sprite drawing level and dump all data passed to the sprite drawing function so that I can reconstruct the original data from there. Of course you are bound to miss game elements which you do not trigger but that is probably enough to get 60% of the assets and start with. There is no point in redoing work that someone already has done.

As far as gameplay code goes, well, I am not too sure how I would proceed. The re-assembler blog author went to horrible lengths to understand everything the OutRun code was doing and while I admire his efforts I would definitely not want to do it myself.

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

mame doesn't support chunky graphics. That's why no sega arcade game can have its sprites visible inside mame.

I am not sure I understand you there.

Mame does emulate many sega arcade games almost perfectly so obviously it is perfectly capable of displaying their sprites. I guess you mean displaying them directly from the ROM instead of in-game?

[eXeler0]

With the recent release of the MMX clone in Vampire, I was thinking it should be possible to code a kick ass pixel-scaling routine using AMMX?
Should it not be possible to do a perfect Arcade port of OutRun (and Afterburner, Thundrblade etc..) on the Vamp?
(It was doable on the Saturn).

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[dlfrsilver]

I am not sure I understand you there.

Mame does emulate many sega arcade games almost perfectly so obviously it is perfectly capable of displaying their sprites. I guess you mean displaying them directly from the ROM instead of in-game?

My apologizes, Mame doesn't support chunky display in the F4 tilemap function. It only support planar graphics.

Problem : the sprites in sega system XX games are stored in chunky mode, not planar.

[saimon69]

Originally Posted by eXeler0

With the recent release of the MMX clone in Vampire, I was thinking it should be possible to code a kick ass pixel-scaling routine using AMMX?
Should it not be possible to do a perfect Arcade port of OutRun (and Afterburner, Thundrblade etc..) on the Vamp?
(It was doable on the Saturn).

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For how i see it Vampire is powerful enough to emulate the arcade in MAME, which then remove the purpose of making a port;

the wet dream of amigans was to show that the Base machine was able to have a good port of Outrun;

[eXeler0]

Originally Posted by saimon69

For how i see it Vampire is powerful enough to emulate the arcade in MAME, which then remove the purpose of making a port;

the wet dream of amigans was to show that the Base machine was able to have a good port of Outrun;

Brute Force is never as interesting or elegant as well tuned, hand crafted routines making use of specific hardware features though :-)
But objectively speaking, yes, if the only objective is to get some version of outRun to run on Amiga then fast enough emulation would do the job.
Tbh though, not sure that the CPU is fast enough yet. Maybe the MAME port itself needs some AMMX love first.

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[idrougge]

Where's the glory in scaling a sprite on a machine with so much CPU power?

[kamelito]

Since Cannonball exist it may be easier to do.
http://reassembler.blogspot.fr/p/can...ngine.html?m=1
Kamelito

[eXeler0]

Originally Posted by idrougge

Where's the glory in scaling a sprite on a machine with so much CPU power?

It wasnt until the Saturn came out that we got a perfect port of OutRun. It requires a bit of power apparently.


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[S0ulA55a551n]

3ds runs it no problem. Even including cabinet effects . If you got a 3ds highly recommend buying it


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[eXeler0]

Originally Posted by S0ulA55a551n

3ds runs it no problem. Even including cabinet effects . If you got a 3ds highly recommend buying it


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You say it as if the 3ds isn't a modern piece of hardware. ;-)
It has a 266MHz dual core ARM 11, 128MB RAM, a GPU running at 133MHz with 6MB dedicated RAM.
The Vampire is not beating that combo in a while.

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[S0ulA55a551n]

Originally Posted by eXeler0

You say it as if the 3ds isn't a modern piece of hardware. ;-)
It has a 266MHz dual core ARM 11, 128MB RAM, a GPU running at 133MHz with 6MB dedicated RAM.
The Vampire is not beating that combo in a while.

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Was suggesting get it for the 3ds. Nothing more.


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[idrougge]

Originally Posted by eXeler0

It wasnt until the Saturn came out that we got a perfect port of OutRun. It requires a bit of power apparently.

Exactly.

[eXeler0]

Originally Posted by kamelito

Since Cannonball exist it may be easier to do.
http://reassembler.blogspot.fr/p/can...ngine.html?m=1
Kamelito

Yes, looks and runs good on Windows. Hard to say, however, if this version pushes it even further away, hardware capability-wise. But as a realistic porting target for Vamp, yes, I hope so.

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[eXeler0]

Originally Posted by idrougge

Exactly.

The difference between "it can't be done" and "it can be done, but not easily" ;-)

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[s2325]

I think Out Run should use Batman engine, US Gold version was relesed same year.

[Coagulus]

Shame the lotus 2 engine couldnt be adapted. But would be nice to write driving game one day.

Originally Posted by S0ulA55a551n

3ds runs it no problem. Even including cabinet effects . If you got a 3ds highly recommend buying it

I did and it's highly enjoyable. The 3d really works and helps!

[eXeler0]

Originally Posted by Coagulus

Shame the lotus 2 engine couldnt be adapted. But would be nice to write driving game one day.



I did and it's highly enjoyable. The 3d really works and helps!

Ok, sorry for being slightly OT here,but regarding OutRun for the 3ds .. I saw the Sega 3d classics volume 2 for International market. In Japan there were 2 collections (SEGA Fukkoku Archives 1 & 2). Outrun seems to be on the first one. I know they will run on European 3ds but will menus etc be in Japanese?)

Look at this on eBay http://www.ebay.com/itm/301862677492

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