Warp3D in WinUAE !!!

RetroMan · 20 June 2003, 21:00

--> http://www.student.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de/~konrad/

Now the only thing we still need is PPC Support in WinUAE or maybe a PPC-Wrapper

Syko · 24 June 2003, 15:52

I've mentioned this in several posts in the WinUAE Probs section, but Toni's never replied or commented

Also you might want to take a look at this http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10057 as it could be even better...

Toni Wilen · 24 June 2003, 16:06

PPC and UAE? Don't look at me..

I have never owned PPC Amiga, probably never will and I don't know anything about PPC programming or hardware.

Syko · 24 June 2003, 16:20

Anyone think they can help?

Or know anyone who might be able too?

Or ever heard of anyone who might?

(sound of PPC wanting cheapskates getting desperate....)

Marcuz · 24 June 2003, 16:48

it would be cool to see run that ppc only demos in winuae

RetroMan · 24 June 2003, 20:48

Well, how about a kind of PPC Wrapper I mentioned above

Just a little DLL which catches all PPC Instructions and changing them into X86 Code ......

Think it´s not so easy but who knows

Akira · 24 June 2003, 23:01

It's not perchance that NO PPC emulator has been created as of yet.

Korodny · 25 June 2003, 15:34

Akira's right. Writing a JIT-PPC emulator is a *major* task - the PPC is quite hard to emulate (especially on a x86 CPU). It has 32 registers (while the x86 has only 5 of them IIRC) and some features that cause quite some overhead when you're trying to emulate them. Additionally, you would also have to emulate the MMU (Memory Management Unit), as every PPC-OS I can think of needs an MMU.

There are PPC emulators out there (I think the GNU Debugging suite includes one), but these are far from being useable (let alone "fast").

IMHO, this will only happen if a company is willing to put a lot of money behind such a project and distribute it commercially. However, I don't see a market for such a solution, that's why it won't happen anytime soon.

IFW · 25 June 2003, 17:36

An X86 has tons of registers... you just don't see them. Really.
1, a modern (p3+) x86 cpu hardware is using register renaming/aliasing to show the usual set of registers towards applications, but internally as long as it has a new register and an older one is being used, it dynamycally "renames" an internal register to another "visible" register if a new instruction is not using the results of the previous operation. All internal registers have busy statuses that the execution and feeding units use to decide which one and how to use.
As you can guess this is very complex, as the cpu must remember which renamed register holds the result of the execution of what instruction...!
2, To make this work x86 has out of order execution (instructions executed in almost an arbitrary order) for a very long time. Also branch prediction discarding results if an unpredicted branch is taken (based on runtime statistics by the cpu) etc.
3, Aside from this stuff, you want use the mmx, and other enhanced integer registers to simulate more registers, if you really need that. SSE2 is highly recommended as you get 128 bit integers freely accessible by the whole or in part (very useful for this purpose), but only from p4.
4, Actually a newer x86 is more risk like, than cisc...

If anyone is willing to pay for the work (this is very far from hobby programming) I am willing to make that ppc emulator. Please note it only really makes sense with p4 class cpus (sse2). Less is possible, but may be unusable for real time applications.

cv643d · 26 June 2003, 00:22

Is it to be able to play PPC games in WinUAE we need PPC emulation?

. . .
Man im just glad WinUAE is as usable as it is today. Remember back in the day at McDonalds when my friend told me he had an Amiga emu on his Linux 486. That was great news. DPaint was so incredibly slow on that 486.. haha damn.. we dreamt about getting Pentiums then so we could speed it up.

Ian · 26 June 2003, 00:47

Why not just play the PC versions instead of the crapper PPC Amiga versions?

Just a thought

PPC emulation is a complete waste of time for a Miggy, nothing was ever written for PPC Miggys that was better than the PC version. In fact in most cases, the PPC version was 100x shitter.

PPC emulation would only decrease the coolness factor of WinUAE IMO and shouldn't be added even if it was possible.

And I speak from experience, I recently swapped my PPC miggy for a normal a500 and a normal a1200.

The opinions in this post are not, and should not be taken as law, it's just my opinion. If you don't like what I said ..... tell someone who cares

Fred the Fop · 26 June 2003, 01:11

PPC emulation may not happen for a long, long time. The maximum Amiga and Macintosh emulators can do is the 68040's.
That's because the PPC chips have so many registers and getting that to work let alone get it exact is extremely difficult task!

Akira · 26 June 2003, 04:42

I for one don't care about PPC Amiga emulation. I will have to agree with Ian, even though the PC games are shite, these Amiga versions I've seen are poorer renditions of something that already is crap IMO.
Except Wipeout 2097 maybe. Which I can run perfectly in my iBook

Twistin'Ghost · 26 June 2003, 18:12

There's more to PPC Amiga than games, right?

Akira · 26 June 2003, 20:12

Errmmm.. not much I think

cv643d · 29 June 2003, 19:42

Yes there are PPC datatypes. So pr0n viewing is faster.

mtb · 21 July 2003, 17:23

Quote:

Originally posted by Frederic
PPC emulation may not happen for a long, long time. The maximum Amiga and Macintosh emulators can do is the 68040's.
That's because the PPC chips have so many registers and getting that to work let alone get it exact is extremely difficult task!

Just for your info, basilik uses the same 68k code of uae ( with also jit ).

th4t1guy · 21 July 2003, 22:18

Don't forget divx!

(Btw, what's the speed of divx on a PPC Amiga?)

20 June 2003, 21:00	#1
RetroMan Registered User Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Germany Age: 47 Posts: 3,704	Warp3D in WinUAE !!! --> http://www.student.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de/~konrad/ Now the only thing we still need is PPC Support in WinUAE or maybe a PPC-Wrapper

25 June 2003, 17:36	#9
IFW Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: ... Age: 49 Posts: 1,838	An X86 has tons of registers... you just don't see them. Really. 1, a modern (p3+) x86 cpu hardware is using register renaming/aliasing to show the usual set of registers towards applications, but internally as long as it has a new register and an older one is being used, it dynamycally "renames" an internal register to another "visible" register if a new instruction is not using the results of the previous operation. All internal registers have busy statuses that the execution and feeding units use to decide which one and how to use. As you can guess this is very complex, as the cpu must remember which renamed register holds the result of the execution of what instruction...! 2, To make this work x86 has out of order execution (instructions executed in almost an arbitrary order) for a very long time. Also branch prediction discarding results if an unpredicted branch is taken (based on runtime statistics by the cpu) etc. 3, Aside from this stuff, you want use the mmx, and other enhanced integer registers to simulate more registers, if you really need that. SSE2 is highly recommended as you get 128 bit integers freely accessible by the whole or in part (very useful for this purpose), but only from p4. 4, Actually a newer x86 is more risk like, than cisc... If anyone is willing to pay for the work (this is very far from hobby programming) I am willing to make that ppc emulator. Please note it only really makes sense with p4 class cpus (sse2). Less is possible, but may be unusable for real time applications. Last edited by IFW; 25 June 2003 at 17:53.

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24 June 2003, 15:52	#2
Syko Now got GSX750F :)) Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Halifax UK Age: 56 Posts: 584	I've mentioned this in several posts in the WinUAE Probs section, but Toni's never replied or commented Also you might want to take a look at this http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10057 as it could be even better...

24 June 2003, 16:06	#3
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 45 Posts: 24,563	PPC and UAE? Don't look at me.. I have never owned PPC Amiga, probably never will and I don't know anything about PPC programming or hardware.

24 June 2003, 16:20	#4
Syko Now got GSX750F :)) Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Halifax UK Age: 56 Posts: 584	Anyone think they can help? Or know anyone who might be able too? Or ever heard of anyone who might? (sound of PPC wanting cheapskates getting desperate....)

24 June 2003, 16:48	#5
Marcuz Wurk??? Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: . Age: 45 Posts: 5,268	it would be cool to see run that ppc only demos in winuae

24 June 2003, 20:48	#6
RetroMan Registered User Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Germany Age: 47 Posts: 3,704	Well, how about a kind of PPC Wrapper I mentioned above Just a little DLL which catches all PPC Instructions and changing them into X86 Code ...... Think it´s not so easy but who knows

24 June 2003, 23:01	#7
Akira Black Lives Matter Join Date: May 2001 Location: New York Posts: 19,438	It's not perchance that NO PPC emulator has been created as of yet.

25 June 2003, 15:34	#8
Korodny Zone Friend Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 729	Akira's right. Writing a JIT-PPC emulator is a major task - the PPC is quite hard to emulate (especially on a x86 CPU). It has 32 registers (while the x86 has only 5 of them IIRC) and some features that cause quite some overhead when you're trying to emulate them. Additionally, you would also have to emulate the MMU (Memory Management Unit), as every PPC-OS I can think of needs an MMU. There are PPC emulators out there (I think the GNU Debugging suite includes one), but these are far from being useable (let alone "fast"). IMHO, this will only happen if a company is willing to put a lot of money behind such a project and distribute it commercially. However, I don't see a market for such a solution, that's why it won't happen anytime soon.

26 June 2003, 00:22	#10
cv643d Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Stockholm/Sweden Age: 42 Posts: 730	Is it to be able to play PPC games in WinUAE we need PPC emulation? . . . Man im just glad WinUAE is as usable as it is today. Remember back in the day at McDonalds when my friend told me he had an Amiga emu on his Linux 486. That was great news. DPaint was so incredibly slow on that 486.. haha damn.. we dreamt about getting Pentiums then so we could speed it up.

26 June 2003, 00:47	#11
Ian Global Moderator Join Date: May 2001 Location: Derby, UK Age: 42 Posts: 2,246	Why not just play the PC versions instead of the crapper PPC Amiga versions? Just a thought PPC emulation is a complete waste of time for a Miggy, nothing was ever written for PPC Miggys that was better than the PC version. In fact in most cases, the PPC version was 100x shitter. PPC emulation would only decrease the coolness factor of WinUAE IMO and shouldn't be added even if it was possible. And I speak from experience, I recently swapped my PPC miggy for a normal a500 and a normal a1200. The opinions in this post are not, and should not be taken as law, it's just my opinion. If you don't like what I said ..... tell someone who cares

26 June 2003, 01:11	#12
Fred the Fop flaming faggot Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Versailles Age: 52 Posts: 2,802	PPC emulation may not happen for a long, long time. The maximum Amiga and Macintosh emulators can do is the 68040's. That's because the PPC chips have so many registers and getting that to work let alone get it exact is extremely difficult task!

26 June 2003, 04:42	#13
Akira Black Lives Matter Join Date: May 2001 Location: New York Posts: 19,438	I for one don't care about PPC Amiga emulation. I will have to agree with Ian, even though the PC games are shite, these Amiga versions I've seen are poorer renditions of something that already is crap IMO. Except Wipeout 2097 maybe. Which I can run perfectly in my iBook

26 June 2003, 18:12	#14
Twistin'Ghost Give up the ghost Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: U$A Age: 29 Posts: 4,662	There's more to PPC Amiga than games, right?

26 June 2003, 20:12	#15
Akira Black Lives Matter Join Date: May 2001 Location: New York Posts: 19,438	Errmmm.. not much I think

29 June 2003, 19:42	#16
cv643d Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Stockholm/Sweden Age: 42 Posts: 730	Yes there are PPC datatypes. So pr0n viewing is faster.

21 July 2003, 22:18	#18
th4t1guy Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Kansas City, MO, USA Posts: 683	Don't forget divx! (Btw, what's the speed of divx on a PPC Amiga?)

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