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Old 17 December 2007, 17:27   #1
sebnet
 
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Exclamation micronik video-slot enabler+picasso IV flifi.

i have a micronik A-1200 bus board 6860 rev 5.44 with video adapter or a video slot enabler micronik rev 2.0 and a picasso IV version 1.2N hardware.
I am looking for the same configuration's owner.

look a picture of the video adapter at:
http://www.lostinlife.de/PICT6946.JPG

look GAL16V8D at the top right of this picture,two pins are soldered .
if the two pins aren't soldered the video slot isn't enabled.
why this mod isn't made in factory?

now my picasso IV scandoubler can use the video slot, the amiga pal native signal is displaying perfectly!
but when i change to ntsc mode, a very big problem appear! the fi-fli do not change his timing.

view the two attached files.

I have entered the picasso IV boot menu and reseted the pal and ntsc
refresh rates to factory default settings.i have tested interlace capture option checked or no
(it give the same result) and i have tested all the refresh rates in the picassoTNGmode program.

my p4bi_FlickerFixerRevision is $7.
i have reflashed to the hacked v1.11, and back to v7.4 no result.

I have read all the picasso IV toubles thread on this forum.
i have posted on the picasso96 yahoo group, they give me advices but no result.
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Last edited by sebnet; 18 December 2007 at 15:16.
 
Old 17 December 2007, 19:02   #2
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The images look like a Picasso IV problem that I used to get with my A4000D. It would happen to me maybe 1 out of 3 reboots.

Someone once described it to me as my Fli-Fi had "lost it's settings".

I think I fix it by changing them in the PIV early startup menu or with PicassoModeTNG.

Hmm.. but you say you've already tried all that eh?

Last edited by alexh; 17 December 2007 at 19:09.
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Old 17 December 2007, 20:25   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexh View Post
The images look like a Picasso IV problem that I used to get with my A4000D. It would happen to me maybe 1 out of 3 reboots.

Someone once described it to me as my Fli-Fi had "lost it's settings".

I think I fix it by changing them in the PIV early startup menu or with PicassoModeTNG.

Hmm.. but you say you've already tried all that eh?
Have probs with my PIV too, have do I enter the PIV early startup menu?
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Old 17 December 2007, 20:50   #4
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You only have one if you have a later ROM.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VillageTronic
The boot menu is activated by holding down either [Shift] key when resetting the machine. A menu very much like the illustration below will appear:


Quote:
Originally Posted by VillageTronic
Depending on what hardware options your Picasso IV has installed, some of the menu buttons will be unavailable. You will always have access to the first button labeled “Flicker fixer options...”. The bootmenu always comes up using the factory default flicker fixer configuration, which uses a 31 kHz video signal. You may have stored a different setup in the Picasso IV flash ROM. To toggle between this and the default configuration, press the [Space] bar on your keyboard.

6.1 The flicker fixer options
You can change two things in this menu: whether or not the flicker fixer will show motion artefacts in non-interlaced display modes and the default PAL and NTSC configurations.


Quote:
Originally Posted by VillageTronic
  1. Interlaced capture enabled
    The built-in flicker fixer will capture the Amiga video signal and feed it into the graphics processor mounted on the Picasso IV. This switch affects how the signal is captured. If enabled, youwill always seemotion artefacts on the screen, such as when moving the mouse. If disabled, these artefacts are restricted to interlaced screens only.
  2. Use
    Press this button to keep any changes you made to the flicker fixer configuration.
  3. Reset to defaults
    Press this button to reset the flicker fixer configuration to factory defaults. This may be necessary if you have switched monitors and the flicker fixer configuration you stored in the flash ROM does not comply with the new monitor connected.
  4. Cancel
    Press this button to discard any changes you made to the flicker fixer configuration.

Last edited by alexh; 17 December 2007 at 23:23.
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Old 17 December 2007, 21:11   #5
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Thanks alexh

Much appreciated
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Old 17 December 2007, 22:03   #6
sebnet
 
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Thanks a lot for all yours advices!

But the problem happen at each reboot!
I have already tried all that you say.

You have perfectly explain each option of the picasso startup menu.
It's useful for all the picasso owners.
But it is'nt resolve my problem and the amiga ntsc video signal still not correctly managed by the fifli and the graphic processor of the picasso board.

My problem do not come from a horizontal refresh rate setting.
I have tried ntsc display from 50 to 120 hz and no changes.
I have seen that the p4info program give pal and ntsc timing values.


P4res PALTiming $6600FFA0 memory allocation ?
P4res NTSCTiming $6600FFB8

Who have a micronik video adapter to see if the two pins of are also soldered on his GAL16V8D chip to activate the video slot?

The problem may come from the video adapter?

I have extracted the P4 flickerfixer chip from his socket and back inside. no change!

Last edited by sebnet; 19 December 2007 at 22:53.
 
Old 18 December 2007, 15:10   #7
sebnet
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexh View Post
The images look like a Picasso IV problem that I used to get with my A4000D. It would happen to me maybe 1 out of 3 reboots.

Someone once described it to me as my Fli-Fi had "lost it's settings".

I think I fix it by changing them in the PIV early startup menu or with PicassoModeTNG.

Hmm.. but you say you've already tried all that eh?
yeah,i can change only the frequency of the horizontal refresh rate.
ntsc mode have less horizontal lines than pal mode at the same refresh rate.that why my ntsc display have shifted lines.

view a new attached picture plz!

pal high res. 640x256 lines and low res. 320x256 lines
ntsc high res. 640x200 lines and low res. 320x200 lines

in picassomodeTNG

pal 760x603
ntsc 760x489

my picasso keep the pal timing when i change to ntsc mode.
this is my problem, heu ... i think!
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Last edited by sebnet; 19 December 2007 at 22:51.
 
Old 27 December 2007, 15:45   #8
Sandgunner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sebnet View Post
yeah,i can change only the frequency of the horizontal refresh rate.
ntsc mode have less horizontal lines than pal mode at the same refresh rate.that why my ntsc display have shifted lines.

Do you have a PAL or an NTSC A1200?
It looks like a chicken and egg problem from what you describe.
The Micronik video slot adapter does not provide every signal from
the original Amiga video slot.

At boot the PIV sets its timing based on the genlock signal of the Amiga.
The Micronik video slot adapter is missing these signals.
It's a bit of a hassle but you can work around this by forcing the
timing at boot. I'm presuming you have a PAL A1200 otherwise
your problem would be the same just with the display timing faults
appearing on PAL screens vice NTSC timing screens.

In the "Amiga" early startup menu press the space bar to toggle
from PAL to NTSC mode. Then boot.
If everything is good with the PIV getting the right signals it should
synch automatically and display a solid NTSC screen.
Let me know how it goes.

Vig
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Old 27 December 2007, 17:58   #9
sebnet
 
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i can toggle between pal and ntsc in the amiga early menu.
but it do not work better.
i have pal amiga 1200.
for fun i have hard modded alice chip to have ntsc by default at startup.
but i have always bad timings only in ntsc.

Q. Is there an internal jumper on the A1200 to set it to default to PAL or NTSC video?

A. No, but if you're really motivated, you can rig this up. My thanks to Tetsuo Oda and Byron Montgomerie, who provided the information that connecting pin 41 of the Alice custom chip to ground causes the A1200 to default to NTSC, while pulling this pin high (disconnecting it from the motherboard and connecting it to +5V through a 4.7k resistor) will make the default power-up state PAL. I would point out that making a modification like this on a surface-mount chip is difficult at best, and you may end up needing an expensive motherboard replacement, or, at worst, a dead A1200 that needs an expensive replacement motherboard available. In most cases, using the boot menu (obtained by pressing both mouse buttons on power-up or reset) to switch to PAL is sufficient. However, with some games, the hardware patch will be necessary to insure proper timing (changing to PAL via the boot menu might make a 50 Hz game run at 60 Hz timing, or vice versa).


The Micronik video slot adapter does not manage ntsc signal or my PIV IS OUT.
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Last edited by sebnet; 27 December 2007 at 18:09.
 
Old 08 February 2008, 07:04   #10
Sandgunner
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PIV synch

After looking over the pictures again it strikes me as isolated to hardware
only and not and FLIFI settings etc.

The phase lock on the PIV for NTSC screen modes is slightly askew.
On the A2320 and the A3000 there is a variable pot to adjust for
this but on the PIV it should be a sig-gen that is not manually
adjustable. Given that.....does the screen settle down after
the machine has been on a while?

Vig
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Old 14 February 2008, 22:23   #11
sebnet
 
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[quote=Sandgunner;394179]After looking over the pictures again it strikes me as isolated to hardware
only and not and FLIFI settings etc.

The phase lock on the PIV for NTSC screen modes is slightly askew.
On the A2320 and the A3000 there is a variable pot to adjust for
this but on the PIV it should be a sig-gen that is not manually
adjustable.
ok
i do not understand this question !

Given that.....does the screen settle down after
the machine has been on a while?

thks
seb
 
Old 01 March 2008, 07:00   #12
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Wiggle on PIV ouput - continued

The phase lock on the PIV for NTSC screen modes is slightly askew.
On the A2320 and the A3000 there is a variable pot to adjust for
this but on the PIV it should be a sig-gen that is not manually
adjustable.

-ok
-i do not understand this question !

It wasn't a question. It was a description of how different FF adjust phase. The A2320 and similar FF boards including the A3000s onboard FF which is just an A2320 built in, have a pot to adjust the phase lock.
The P4 does this automatically. Your picture examples are exactly what appears when the signal is out of phase.

Good news or bad news depending on your full setup.
If you are using a flatscreen LCD monitor there is a good chance the phase problem could be with you monitor not synching to the PIV output.
Happens often with non VESA exact modes and LCD flatscreens.
In the monitors control setup you can adjust the PHASE on most decent flatscreens. If this doesn't fix your wiggle then the problem is with the PIV and I sorry but it is not something that can be fixed by adjusting the PIV flickerfixer by jumpers or any software/menu adjustment.

Vig
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Old 01 March 2008, 15:49   #13
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Very interesting, the lcd monitor I have just got does the same thing for NTSC modes whereas PAL is just fine, as Sandgunner has just said it is common on non-VESA modes for LCD monitors. I have only tried it with the EZ-VGA scandoubler yet, will try and see if I get the same problem with my PIV. PIV is soooooo configurable, should be able to adjust it to get around it (hopefully).
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Old 17 March 2008, 13:58   #14
sebnet
 
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[quote=Sandgunner;398992]The phase lock on the PIV for NTSC screen modes is slightly askew.
On the A2320 and the A3000 there is a variable pot to adjust for
this but on the PIV it should be a sig-gen that is not manually
adjustable.

-ok
-i do not understand this question !

It wasn't a question. It was a description of how different FF adjust phase. The A2320 and similar FF boards including the A3000s onboard FF which is just an A2320 built in, have a pot to adjust the phase lock.
The P4 does this automatically. Your picture examples are exactly what appears when the signal is out of phase.

Good news or bad news depending on your full setup.
If you are using a flatscreen LCD monitor there is a good chance the phase problem could be with you monitor not synching to the PIV output.
Happens often with non VESA exact modes and LCD flatscreens.


In the monitors control setup you can adjust the PHASE on most decent flatscreens. If this doesn't fix your wiggle then the problem is with the PIV and I sorry but it is not something that can be fixed by adjusting the PIV flickerfixer by jumpers or any software/menu adjustment.

i have adjusted the phase and frequency settings on my lcd but no result!
 
Old 18 March 2008, 04:50   #15
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Try it with a CRT.

Some LCDs detect the wrong screenmode for some resolutions, and hence try to display say a 640x400 in a 640x480 screen, etc.
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Old 21 March 2008, 04:38   #16
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[quote=sebnet;402349]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandgunner View Post
The phase lock on the PIV for NTSC screen modes is slightly askew.
On the A2320 and the A3000 there is a variable pot to adjust for
this but on the PIV it should be a sig-gen that is not manually
adjustable.

-ok
-i do not understand this question !

It wasn't a question. It was a description of how different FF adjust phase. The A2320 and similar FF boards including the A3000s onboard FF which is just an A2320 built in, have a pot to adjust the phase lock.
The P4 does this automatically. Your picture examples are exactly what appears when the signal is out of phase.

Good news or bad news depending on your full setup.
If you are using a flatscreen LCD monitor there is a good chance the phase problem could be with you monitor not synching to the PIV output.
Happens often with non VESA exact modes and LCD flatscreens.


In the monitors control setup you can adjust the PHASE on most decent flatscreens. If this doesn't fix your wiggle then the problem is with the PIV and I sorry but it is not something that can be fixed by adjusting the PIV flickerfixer by jumpers or any software/menu adjustment.

i have adjusted the phase and frequency settings on my lcd but no result!
Sorry late responding.... by about 3 months! DOH!
Anywho.....looking over the thread and your posted images I have a question and a suggestion.
Are the pictures screen grabs or a digital camera picture.

I presume it is not a screen grab as the early startup is rather hard
to screen grab without a rom module program added.

It appears to be exactly as I stated before. A phase lock problem.
You stated you are using an LCD monitor which is common to have
phase lock problems when fed non VESA modes.
Your LCD phase adjustment needs to be a twofor.
Pixel clock AND Phase adjustment. Another trick with low end LCD's
is to turn them off then right back on to re-phase/re-lock the signal.

Let me know how it goes when you read this.

Vig
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Old 25 March 2008, 12:40   #17
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I use to have a similar problem with my A1200 gfx card. It was blurred with lots of lines. Not too dissimilar to yours.

I fixed it by cleaning the zorro connector with a rubber and then re-seating it.

Guessing you have already tried this though
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Old 29 March 2008, 17:36   #18
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@sebnet

Please ignore my previous comments in this thread regarding the LCD being the problem. I found after hooking up to a CRT the problem still existed! It was a problem with my external scandoubler causing problems with only NTSC modes exactly like your pictures look. The pixels look steady on an LCD, but on a CRT they are moving/shimmering.

My solution was, similar to Sandgunner's comments, was to adjust the pot on my external flickerfixer EZVGA Plus. However, I cannot get both NTSC and PAL interlaced to work perfectly together with the same pot setting

AFAIK, the PIV does not have an ability to easily (or at all?) adjust this setting.
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Old 06 April 2008, 05:16   #19
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Squiggle squiggle

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calgor View Post
@sebnet

Please ignore my previous comments in this thread regarding the LCD being the problem. I found after hooking up to a CRT the problem still existed! It was a problem with my external scandoubler causing problems with only NTSC modes exactly like your pictures look. The pixels look steady on an LCD, but on a CRT they are moving/shimmering.

My solution was, similar to Sandgunner's comments, was to adjust the pot on my external flickerfixer EZVGA Plus. However, I cannot get both NTSC and PAL interlaced to work perfectly together with the same pot setting

AFAIK, the PIV does not have an ability to easily (or at all?) adjust this setting.
To find the happy medium for PAL/NTSC with the phase lock adjustment
use the A2320 setup disk from www.l8r.net
Although it was created to adjust the A2320 display enhancer, the external
flickerfixers like the EZVGA, Toastscan etc all use the same type of hardware and adjustments. The PIV can be adjusted in software settings that are saved to the EPROM on the board.
With a caveat though when you get the NTSC modes steady you still
might have a slight problem with PAL modes and vice versa depending
on your primary mode. It just wasn't expected that people would be bouncing back and forth from native PAL and NTSC modes all that often so it really isn't a feature.
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