Why game companies didn't make better games for Amiga

[nobody]

The SNES Street fighter 2 sold 6.300.000 copies. I would be surprised if the A500 version sold around 200.000. of course the SNES was a much better game, made by Capcom themselves. I believe it's due to a number of reasons. Small market, the hardware was restricting what they wanted to do, due to low memory, lack of hard disk and obsolete specs. 8+8 colors playfields isn't going to make a good sf2 game except if they had used some tricks with sprites. In the end, they had teams of 10 pro persons working on a game for SNES contrary to 2 or 3 semi-pro working on an A500 on a tight deadline.

[Zarchos]

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

What difference does it make how good a coder I am, when the discussion is about Amiga software sales?

It is a categorical FACT that Lemmings on Amiga sold 55,000 copies on its first day of release, obviously the final figure was significantly higher than that.

Psygnosis had MASSIVE success on Amiga, an independent publisher, largely making original titles, that invariably were considered AAA titles of their day.

Theres NOTHING biased about my comment with regards Amiga software sales, they are factually correct, feel free to prove me wrong.

I call you a revisionist because you are content to revise the history of the Amiga, a machine you have amply demonstrated on Youtube you have very little understanding about. Feel free to pick a different word, I really don't care.

You can call me a thief and a retard if you like, when you do, just make sure you conceed any arguments you have, because then you're done, demonstrating you cannot discuss without insults.

Have I insulted you? Please feel free to quote me where I have

I quote you in your previous post : 'your revisionist attempts'. Isn't that an insult ?
Revisionism : nice ! And you think you are subtle, maybe ?
It is like you being the advocate of piracy : an insult, and a grotesque farce.
To make a long story short : keep you BS for your teenage fan club.
On a scale of value for a human being I rank you at a very low level, like all thieves.
The best answer about piracy was given on this board by Monsterland, 24/02/08
Bad luck for you, thief, I knew the creator of Jim Power and the graphics artist.
We lived in the same town.
They were not exactly thrilled by the sales figures., ya see or do you need a drawing to explain ?
Do you see how ridiculous you appear now ?
I knew the 2 people who gave the Amiga one of the best games ever, and they were delighted to leave the Amiga and start working on the consoles.
Thanks to you.
You'd better simply stop here, now.
As far as I am concerned, I have no time and no interest to keep on trouncing you, it is too easy, there is no sport.

[Galahad/FLT]

Originally Posted by idrougge

Doesn't really matter if Lemmings sells 55 000 copies on the Amiga if it sells ten times as much on the SNES.

You're forgetting that it would need to sell significantly more on consoles to offset the cost of manufacturing the cartridges

[Leffmann]

I don't think they needed a terrible amount of sales to offset that actually. Look at RGCD, they're publishing in cartridge format and sell in the range of hundreds of copies, and while I'm sure they've run in the negative at least once, it works out well enough to keep going.

[lordofchaos]

Originally Posted by idrougge

Doesn't really matter if Lemmings sells 55 000 copies on the Amiga if it sells ten times as much on the SNES.

Yeah, making profit is terrible..

[Galahad/FLT]

Originally Posted by Zarchos

I quote you in your previous post : 'your revisionist attempts'. Isn't that an insult ?

Not if its true

Originally Posted by Zarchos

Revisionism : nice ! And you think you are subtle, maybe ?

I'm not trying to be subtle, i'm ensuring my language is plain enough for you to understand it....... don't want there to be ANY confusion whatsoever

Originally Posted by Zarchos

It is like you being the advocate of piracy :

Oh, this is of course relevant to sales figures of software on the Amiga, you know, the discussion we WERE actually having.

Perhaps you could change the subject to how often your garbage is collected in France in comparison to the UK, because maybe it might be a subject you have some expertise on, seeing as you don't seem to have much on this one, hence you changing the subject

Originally Posted by Zarchos

an insult, and a grotesque farce.

OK....I remember forcing people to accept the cracks I did, I remember clearly telling them that fuck their conscience, that they better accept my cracks..... OR ELSE!

The reality of course is very much different to how you imagine.

Originally Posted by Zarchos

To make a long story short : keep you BS for your teenage fan club.

I think they are all no longer teenagers, some time has passed.

Originally Posted by Zarchos

On a scale of value for a human being I rank you at a very low level, like all thieves.

Well, it could be worse, I could be on Youtube making bold claims about a computer I know little about, and deleting those comments that prove my claims wrong........ It could be worse, I could be YOU and a LIAR!

Originally Posted by Zarchos

The best answer about piracy was given on this board by Monsterland, 24/02/08

Yeah, mine was better: http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=...&postcount=106

Originally Posted by Zarchos

Bad luck for you, thief, I knew the creator of Jim Power and the graphics artist.
We lived in the same town.
They were not exactly thrilled by the sales figures., ya see or do you need a drawing to explain ?

I'll just let Fernando Velez answer that one

"YOOOOH CRACKER, I THINK THIS IS THE LAMEST PROTECTION YOU HAVE EVER SEEN IN YOUR LIFE!!! SORRY BUT I ONLY HAVE 5 MINS TO PUT IT IN!!! FOR MY NEXT GAME I WILL PUT A SUPER ONE!!! GREETINGS TO VISION FACTORY!!!"

Where will you find that message? In the boot code for....... Jim Power!!

He greets that well known demo group Vision Factory...... oh, hang on, they were anything but demo.

Why would he greet a cracking group? Damn thieves everywhere

And releasing ANY game through Loriciels wasn't ever going to do his game any good either.

Originally Posted by Zarchos

Do you see how ridiculous you appear now ?

Not really. We've established that when you get beaten on a subject, you change that subject in the hope you can score points elsewhere, we now know you didn't know Fernando Velez the programmer of Jim Power very well, we've established that you don't know the difference between the distribution network and power between someone like Ocean and Loriciels, and you think i'm responsible for people copying games but say nothing about the integrity of those copying those games.

Oh, and that you still haven't got a clue about PacMania on the Amiga

Originally Posted by Zarchos

I knew the 2 people who gave the Amiga one of the best games ever, and they were delighted to leave the Amiga and start working on the consoles.

You do realise that Jim Power pretty much failed on every single format it was released on don't you? Clearly not. Well done you

Originally Posted by Zarchos

Thanks to you.

Oh, i'm being blamed for cracks I didn't even do now?

Originally Posted by Zarchos

You'd better simply stop here, now.

You really need me to stop here.... now, because you're not doing very well at all.

Perhaps you could make another video about the Amiga 500's "weak copros"

Originally Posted by Zarchos

As far as I am concerned, I have no time and no interest to keep on trouncing you,

Please let me know when you intend to start, and i'll be ready.

Originally Posted by Zarchos

it is too easy, there is no sport.

Oh really

[Galahad/FLT]

Originally Posted by Leffmann

I don't think they needed a terrible amount of sales to offset that actually. Look at RGCD, they're publishing in cartridge format and sell in the range of hundreds of copies, and while I'm sure they've run in the negative at least once, it works out well enough to keep going.

They did back in the day when cartridges were significantly more expensive to produce dude

And they also had to gauge the market correctly to produce enough cartridges to meet expected demand and not too much, and all those costs were lumped on the publisher, not Nintendo or Sega.

And they had to have them produced at least three months before release as well, so there were all sorts of extra factors to console publishing that whilst were enticing for publishers, also came with added costs that were simply not a concern on the Amiga.

[Leffmann]

Of course it was more expensive to make cartridges back then, but if you can make it work with 100 copies today, is there really any doubt they could make it work with 10 000 copies (typically more) back then?

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

And they also had to gauge the market correctly to produce enough cartridges to meet expected demand and not too much, and all those costs were lumped on the publisher, not Nintendo or Sega.

But that was the case for Amiga as well, and other systems and mediums.

[Galahad/FLT]

Originally Posted by Leffmann

Of course it was more expensive to make cartridges back then, but if you can make it work with 100 copies today, is there really any doubt they could make it work with 10 000 copies (typically more) back then?



But that was the case for Amiga as well, and other systems and mediums.

I don't think you're absorbing the financial impact of getting it wrong on cartridge versus getting it wrong on Amiga.

Get it wrong on Amiga, and its no big thing, a later budget release or subsequent compilation release will help clear the backlog, and whatever is left can be copied over with something else, the only expense left being left over boxes.

If a publisher gets it wrong on cartridges....... the expense and loss is much greater.

I don't deny consoles typically saw better sales, but I think some are of the view that everything on console sold millions and there was no risk. There were plenty of games on console that outright bombed.

There was a reason why quite a few of the big publishers stuck with the Amiga for so long, and thats simply because there was less risk with the machine. If consoles were such the goldmine that people perceive them to be, surely the Amiga would have been dropped so much sooner?

[Old_Bob]

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

There was a reason why quite a few of the big publishers stuck with the Amiga for so long, and thats simply because there was less risk with the machine. If consoles were such the goldmine that people perceive them to be, surely the Amiga would have been dropped so much sooner?

I agree.

In terms of the games market over the 16bit era; sure, you could potentially make shed loads more with a big hit on a console, but that doesn't mean that companies like Sensible, DMA or the likes didn't make a nice living, at least for a few years? Taking the MK2 example, it seems reasonable that a company might just as well be making an Amiga version at the time they were doing the Mega Drive one. It might not take a huge amount of man hours to apply the work that would have to be done anyway and any sales on top of the console version would be a worthwhile cherry on the money cake.

In response to to the original question, I guess I might blame C= (again, lol) for letting the platform stagnate. If the 500+ had been more than an A500 with 1mb of Chip RAM and a battery backed clock, we might have seen companies pushing development of more ambitious titles? Chuck in a '030 and some Fast RAM* and a lot more becomes possible. Once half a million of those are sold through to users, there's an incentive.

B

*memory was still very expensive, of course in 1990/1, but even a measly 1mb would have helped. The CPU, however, would have only cost a few dollars plus change. Hardly enough to break the bank.

[Zarchos]

Originally Posted by idrougge

Doesn't really matter if Lemmings sells 55 000 copies on the Amiga if it sells ten times as much on the SNES.

The G. guy, delusional, will tell you that he has the moral and juridictional authority to decide that this 55 000 sales figure is good and is sufficient.
That is the ultraleftist attitude of thieves who decide there is a limit to making money, and you can rob the true wealth creators.
In my youth I very well remember small computers / games shops had only a few Amiga games on the shelves, because the kids had the games even before the owner of the shops receive the original copies.

Are there any moderators on this board ?
Piracy is a crime, and letting people advocate crimes makes you guilty in a trial.
You'd better think twice about the comments you do not moderate.
People like Galahag are supposed to be grown ups now, with a fully formed brain, so there is no excuse to let this 'free speech' when it is a Law infringement.

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by Zarchos

Are there any moderators on this board ?

Yes of course there are moderators on EAB, see here.

...but like everyone else I have a real job and moderate when I can. I'm here often enough throughout the days / nights but can't watch, read every single thread to make sure the kiddies aren't fighting / flaming...

Anyway, I suggest that both of you cool it going forward. No more please otherwise temp bans will be occurring. This stops now

[Galahad/FLT]

Originally Posted by DamienD

Yes of course there are moderators on EAB, see here.

...but like everyone else I have a real job and moderate when I can. I'm here often enough throughout the days / nights but can't watch, read every single thread to make sure the kiddies aren't fighting / flaming...

Anyway, I suggest that both of you cool it going forward. No more please otherwise temp bans will be occurring. This stops now

All I see is a discussion, I think any moderation would be ill advised and heavy handed.

Some of us are not 'kiddies', and are wearing big boy trousers and don't need our hands holding either.

[DamienD]

...it's clearly getting a bit heated

Enough Galahad, I won't say it again.

[Galahad/FLT]

Originally Posted by Zarchos

The G. guy, delusional, will tell you that he has the moral and juridictional authority to decide that this 55 000 sales figure is good and is sufficient.

Your reading comprehension isn't so good. That was Lemmings sales figures on DAY ONE, not ALL of its sales on Amiga. If you're intent on discussion, please feel free to avail yourself of all the words used

Originally Posted by Zarchos

That is the ultraleftist attitude of thieves who decide there is a limit to making money, and you can rob the true wealth creators.

who have I robbed?

Originally Posted by Zarchos

In my youth I very well remember small computers / games shops had only a few Amiga games on the shelves, because the kids had the games even before the owner of the shops receive the original copies.

Your experience isn't the same as every other country. For a long time the Atari ST was king in France, in the UK, it was very much the Amiga and its presence was EVERYWHERE.

Originally Posted by Zarchos

Are there any moderators on this board ?

Conversation getting a little tricky huh?

Originally Posted by Zarchos

Piracy is a crime, and letting people advocate crimes makes you guilty in a trial.

I would remind you about free speech, but you're probably of the mind it has certain conditions that only you agree with.

Originally Posted by Zarchos

You'd better think twice about the comments you do not moderate.

Why? Is there a burgeoning Amiga software market?

Originally Posted by Zarchos

People like Galahag are supposed to be grown ups now,

Name calling and the irony of wanting people to be "grown ups"

Originally Posted by Zarchos

with a fully formed brain, so there is no excuse to let this 'free speech' when it is a Law infringement.

There it is, can't talk about piracy because it infringes on YOUR idea of "free speech"

[DamienD]

Ok, I don't have time to deal with this properly right now as very busy with work.

Thread closed...