Vampire and Chip RAM

[Supamax]

Sorry if this was asked (and explained/answered) before:
will an Amiga with a Vampire card still have the initial/original amount of Chip RAM?

I mean: a 1MB Chip RAM Amiga 600 will have - after the Vampire upgrade - a LOT of fast RAM but only 1MB Chip RAM??

Wouldn't it be possible to increase the Chip RAM also, by adding it (somehow) on the Vampire?

[Supamax]

Originally Posted by Supamax

Wouldn't it be possible to increase the Chip RAM also, by adding it (somehow) on the Vampire?

Or at least not real Chip RAM, but something virtually seen by the system as Chip RAM (8 MB maximum?).

[wawa]

according to gunnar they have up to the whole ram defined as chip ram in testing..

[grond]

Yes, Gold3 will put the chipmem into the Vampire fastmem.

[Toryglen-boy]

Originally Posted by grond

Yes, Gold3 will put the chipmem into the Vampire fastmem.

sounds great, isn't the cap on chip mem 2mb?


and when is the mythical GOLD3 arriving?

[E-Penguin]

There's already screenshots of it configured using 4MB chip in SAGA/planar modes. Which is quite exciting.

I'd like to know whether it still uses the installed (physical) chip ram though, and whether I ought to get an A604n to boost it to 2Mb. Not going to drop €30 on that if it's not used at all by the Vampire.

[Toryglen-boy]

Originally Posted by E-Penguin

There's already screenshots of it configured using 4MB chip in SAGA/planar modes. Which is quite exciting.

I'd like to know whether it still uses the installed (physical) chip ram though, and whether I ought to get an A604n to boost it to 2Mb. Not going to drop €30 on that if it's not used at all by the Vampire.

my A604n just died. yesterday. its a PITA trying to run stuff without it.

[Daedalus]

The cap of 2MB is more of a physical limitation on the hardware of the actual chipsets - extra address lines are required that the custom chips simply don't possess, so real hardware can never access more than 2MB. Architecturally there's no reason chip RAM can't be extended into the adjoining Zorro-II space which is normally used for 24-bit fast RAM - once the custom chips can access it, in theory any RAM can be chip RAM. WinUAE allows up to 8MB of chip RAM because it's not limited by the lack of physical address lines in the custom chips. The Vampire takes a similar approach - by emulating the entire AGA chipset, it's no longer bound by the physical limits of the original chips, and so can virtually provide the extra address lines needed to extend chip RAM. Again, in theory this could mean any RAM could be used as chip RAM, though extending it beyond the Zorro-II space would result in non-contiguous blocks in order to maintain compatibility with existing hardware.

Since this can only happen because the Vampire is emulating the AGA chipset, I really don't think it would use the existing chip RAM, so the A604n would be of little use other than as a clock port. Besides, the original chip RAM would be so much slower than the memory on the Vampire, so it would only slow things down.

[grond]

The physical chipmem will be ignored, hence no reason to drop money into a chipmem expansion.

[Toryglen-boy]

Originally Posted by Daedalus

The cap of 2MB is more of a physical limitation on the hardware of the actual chipsets - extra address lines are required that the custom chips simply don't possess, so real hardware can never access more than 2MB. Architecturally there's no reason chip RAM can't be extended into the adjoining Zorro-II space which is normally used for 24-bit fast RAM - once the custom chips can access it, in theory any RAM can be chip RAM. WinUAE allows up to 8MB of chip RAM because it's not limited by the lack of physical address lines in the custom chips. The Vampire takes a similar approach - by emulating the entire AGA chipset, it's no longer bound by the physical limits of the original chips, and so can virtually provide the extra address lines needed to extend chip RAM. Again, in theory this could mean any RAM could be used as chip RAM, though extending it beyond the Zorro-II space would result in non-contiguous blocks in order to maintain compatibility with existing hardware.

Since this can only happen because the Vampire is emulating the AGA chipset, I really don't think it would use the existing chip RAM, so the A604n would be of little use other than as a clock port. Besides, the original chip RAM would be so much slower than the memory on the Vampire, so it would only slow things down.

music to my ears mate, I'm that tight, i can peel an orange in my pocket

[Signman]

Graphics wise, the more chipram the better.

[Glen M]

This is one of the very reasons I personally am unsure of the vampire as it essentially becomes a full Amiga chipset in fpga making your existing board and hardware essentially redundant.

I still think this is a key reason why the vampire 1200 isn't available yet as the need to first emulate the aga chipset which as I understand isn't finished yet.

[Marlon_]

Originally Posted by Glen M

This is one of the very reasons I personally am unsure of the vampire as it essentially becomes a full Amiga chipset in fpga making your existing board and hardware essentially redundant.

You'll probably still have the option to use the original chipset, and just use the raw power of the CPU within the FPGA. The AGA or rather SAGA chipset within the Apollo Core is mostly made for the standalone version, which makes sense.

Originally Posted by Glen M

I still think this is a key reason why the vampire 1200 isn't available yet as the need to first emulate the aga chipset which as I understand isn't finished yet.

Why do you think so? The A1200 already has the AGA chipset.

The current Vampires does not "emulate" OCS/ECS either, it just has RTG.

[Supamax]

Originally Posted by grond

Yes, Gold3 will put the chipmem into the Vampire fastmem.

WOW, that's great!
I didn't know it was possible.

Originally Posted by E-Penguin

There's already screenshots of it configured using 4MB chip in SAGA/planar modes. Which is quite exciting.

Double-WOW, indeed!

So It will not be necessary for me to buy a Chip RAM expansion board.

[Glen M]

Originally Posted by Marlon_

You'll probably still have the option to use the original chipset, and just use the raw power of the CPU within the FPGA. The AGA or rather SAGA chipset within the Apollo Core is mostly made for the standalone version, which makes sense.



Why do you think so? The A1200 already has the AGA chipset.

The current Vampires does not "emulate" OCS/ECS either, it just has RTG.

But the very fact that they are staying they are working on a new aga core for the ocs/ecs machine can only be possible by completely emulating the entire chipset in fpga. Then talk of extra chipram goes further to suggest even the existing 1200 aga chipset will be made redundant as (to my understanding) alice cannot address more than the 2mb of chipram already there. If she could we would of seen chip ram expansions to make use of the 1200s p9a connector.

This of course is just my theory looking at it from my limited technological viewpoint. Coming at it from a business point of view it makes sense to finish the aga development for the 500/600 Then just copy that model to the 1200.

[Marlon_]

Originally Posted by Glen M

But the very fact that they are staying they are working on a new aga core for the ocs/ecs machine can only be possible by completely emulating the entire chipset in fpga. Then talk of extra chipram goes further to suggest even the existing 1200 aga chipset will be made redundant as (to my understanding) alice cannot address more than the 2mb of chipram already there. If she could we would of seen chip ram expansions to make use of the 1200s p9a connector.

This of course is just my theory looking at it from my limited technological viewpoint. Coming at it from a business point of view it makes sense to finish the aga development for the 500/600 Then just copy that model to the 1200.

Yes, that is true, but it's still not a requirement for the vampire/apollo to work with A1200, and I sincerely hope that we will be able to disable SAGA chipset to use the original AGA in the A1200.

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by Supamax

WOW,

Double-WOW, indeed!

So It will not be necessary for me to buy a Chip RAM expansion board.

Depends on your patience. Vampire os a work in progress device. Far from finished at this moment.

[Starglider 2]

Originally Posted by grond

Yes, Gold3 will put the chipmem into the Vampire fastmem.

I only just found this info but this is wonderful news. I know there are no promised release dates so I will only say that I really appreciate the team bringing these new possibilities to OCS/ECS machines.

I have a Rev 5 A500 and modding it to use 1MB has never quite worked right with games. I can't wait! (But will.)