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Old 01 February 2017, 17:05   #21
frank_b
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Originally Posted by Amigajay View Post
I think it would be better to just have 'better' and 'looked better in a different way' otherwise the thread will get swamped, we know there is hundreds of better looking Amiga versions, i'd just rather know which games played better /extra features or looked better on the ST.

Addams Family was a good example, even if the push scrolling was crap.
Prince of persia had much nicer graphics on the ST.
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Old 01 February 2017, 17:14   #22
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ST

http://www.amigapage.it/index.php?pl...e_prophecy.mp4

Amiga

http://www.amigapage.it/index.php?pl...e_prophecy.mp4

ST music this time is different and maybe better than amiga version. With its limited palettes, the Atari ST is the same the Amiga
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Old 01 February 2017, 19:50   #23
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Originally Posted by frank_b View Post
Prince of persia had much nicer graphics on the ST.
I beg to differ.

Amiga version:
[ Show youtube player ]

Atari ST version:
[ Show youtube player ]

I know that tastes can't be argued, but for me the Amiga version looks (and sounds) better all the way trough...

EDIT:
One game that I prefer on the Atari ST over the Amiga is UBI Soft's classic Zombi, especially since the graphics are identical on both versions but the ST versions sports better music (by David Whittaker) while the Amiga version sports a different music (not so cool, IMO), done by portuguese-french composers Alain da Silva and David Peres.

Atari ST version:
[ Show youtube player ]

Amiga version:
[ Show youtube player ]

Last edited by PortuguesePilot; 01 February 2017 at 19:56.
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Old 02 February 2017, 04:29   #24
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Originally Posted by frank_b View Post
Prince of persia had much nicer graphics on the ST.
The slowdown is a bit shocking though. And it seems to then play too fast when there's not much happening on screen. I'm sure it performs a lot better than that on an A500.
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Old 02 February 2017, 11:11   #25
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The ST version of PoP is better than the Amiga version.

Why ? Because the Amiga version is based on the PC version, while the ST version was done by Microids inhouse ; It's a more polished and licked up version, the graphics have more colors than the Amiga one, and it's fast, it doesn't have the slowdowns the Amiga version has.
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Old 02 February 2017, 13:28   #26
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The ST version of PoP is better than the Amiga version.

Why ? Because the Amiga version is based on the PC version, while the ST version was done by Microids inhouse ; It's a more polished and licked up version, the graphics have more colors than the Amiga one, and it's fast, it doesn't have the slowdowns the Amiga version has.
I have to be blind or the ST version on the video has more and bigger slowdowns than Amiga.
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Old 02 February 2017, 13:44   #27
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I have to be blind or the ST version on the video has more and bigger slowdowns than Amiga.
I have the game and i ran it on my ST and STE, and the ST version has no slowdown. the sprite moves very smoothly.

Honestly, they should have done the game from the ST version on the Amiga instead of the PC version.

The Amiga version has terrifying slowndowns in many places in the game.....
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Old 02 February 2017, 15:43   #28
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Originally Posted by dlfrsilver View Post
The ST version of PoP is better than the Amiga version.

Why ? Because the Amiga version is based on the PC version, while the ST version was done by Microids inhouse ; It's a more polished and licked up version, the graphics have more colors than the Amiga one, and it's fast, it doesn't have the slowdowns the Amiga version has.
More colours?! Nope. Just look at the intro, for instance. The Amiga has more colours. The Atari ST has different graphics, though, so it may give the impression of being more colourful than it actually is, but it only has 16 colours on-screen while the Amiga has 32 looking very much like the VGA version of the PC game (EGA and CGA are simply awful, though CGA has a special appeal to me since it was the first version of the game that I played).

I also have an Atari ST and there are slowdowns in the real machine as well. Maybe it's due to the fact that mine only has 512kb RAM? I don't know, what I do know is that the game has less colours, a lower resolution and slowdowns whenever there's a few more movements happening on the screen. The Amiga is a tad slow, yes, especially when compared with the contemporary i80386DX@33MHz, but back in 1989 no-one had one of those. Normal, non-millionaire people had i8086@10MHz or an i80286@20MHz, so they played the game even slower than the Amiga. I know 'cos I had a i8088@10MHz with a CGA board and the usual PC-Speaker. The Amiga version also has MUCH BETTER sound than any other computer version (including the Macintosh and the X68000 versions of the game, which are different, being closer to the console versions of the game). The only upside of the ST version has over the Amiga one, IMHO, is the larger screen size.
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Old 02 February 2017, 16:59   #29
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Originally Posted by PortuguesePilot View Post
More colours?! Nope. Just look at the intro, for instance. The Amiga has more colours. The Atari ST has different graphics, though, so it may give the impression of being more colourful than it actually is, but it only has 16 colours on-screen while the Amiga has 32 looking very much like the VGA version of the PC game (EGA and CGA are simply awful, though CGA has a special appeal to me since it was the first version of the game that I played).

I also have an Atari ST and there are slowdowns in the real machine as well. Maybe it's due to the fact that mine only has 512kb RAM? I don't know, what I do know is that the game has less colours, a lower resolution and slowdowns whenever there's a few more movements happening on the screen. The Amiga is a tad slow, yes, especially when compared with the contemporary i80386DX@33MHz, but back in 1989 no-one had one of those. Normal, non-millionaire people had i8086@10MHz or an i80286@20MHz, so they played the game even slower than the Amiga. I know 'cos I had a i8088@10MHz with a CGA board and the usual PC-Speaker. The Amiga version also has MUCH BETTER sound than any other computer version (including the Macintosh and the X68000 versions of the game, which are different, being closer to the console versions of the game). The only upside of the ST version has over the Amiga one, IMHO, is the larger screen size.
The Amiga sprite looks truly awful though?
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Old 02 February 2017, 19:29   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PortuguesePilot View Post
More colours?! Nope. Just look at the intro, for instance. The Amiga has more colours. The Atari ST has different graphics, though, so it may give the impression of being more colourful than it actually is, but it only has 16 colours on-screen while the Amiga has 32 looking very much like the VGA version of the PC game (EGA and CGA are simply awful, though CGA has a special appeal to me since it was the first version of the game that I played).
The Amiga version is only using 16 colors, and those are worse than those used on the ST version.

Prince of Persia is one of the game were the Amiga version is a fail and where the ST version is better : graphically, sonically and playability wise.

For a reason, this ST version is the one used to make the CPC version. They used the ST assets.

The graphics were done by the loriciel graphist called Marco de Florès, and the game was coded by jean claude Levy, a microids coder.

Michel Winogradoff did the soundtrack, which is sampled based.

I have the game running on my STF with 1mb of ram. The introduction, all the intermede screens are enhanced and beautiful, and i insist, there are NO slowdown at all in this version. The ST version was made mostly in ASM, where the Amiga version is coded in C crap.

Quote:
I also have an Atari ST and there are slowdowns in the real machine as well.
Ok, put your amiga aside your ST, and now check about the slowdowns.

You'll quickly see that your Amiga will have awful slowdown, with the framerate going down as far as 2 frames per seconds.

This never happens in the ST version, and it has music and digitized SFX, with voices when the sprite is hit. The Amiga version is _VERY_ poor in this regard.

Quote:
Maybe it's due to the fact that mine only has 512kb RAM?
Just check the Amiga version. You need a 68020 to see the slowdown disappear.

Quote:
I don't know, what I do know is that the game has less colours
That's wrong. The Amiga version has not 1/3 of the colors the ST version has.

If it was possible, it would even be awesome if the ST version could be ported on the Amiga.

Quote:
a lower resolution
That's wrong, the Amiga version use the same resolution. Marco de Florès reworked the original assets coming from the PC to make them better.

Quote:
slowdowns whenever there's a few more movements happening on the screen.
That's for the Amiga version. As soon as you have a trap running, a guard, that's it, the sprite run at 2 frames per sec.

Quote:
The only upside of the ST version has over the Amiga one, IMHO, is the larger screen size.
The ST version has :

* Better graphics (reworked, enhanced, bigger palette)
* Better animation (hands up !)
* No slowdowns like the Amiga version (no crap 2 fps slideshow)
* Digital music and sound

The Amiga version is just a crude port of the PC version with unoptimized code C, low quality graphics in 16 colors, awful slowdown.

Shame for a game with such an amount of sprite frames.
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Old 02 February 2017, 21:07   #31
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I just cannot agree. The ST version just seems like a diferent game for me, maybe because I played the PC version first, I don't know. But the Amiga looks like Prince of Persia, while the ST looks like something that looks like Prince of Persia.

Now, I know that the Amiga is mostly done in C and that's why it is slower than it should have been, but for me the graphics are much nicer and polished than the ST version. Maybe this is a case of "the beauty is in the eye of the beholder" thing, but I never really cared much for the ST version (or any other version BUT the PC and Amiga ones, which are the ones that look similar. Even the fan-made Spectrum version is based itself on these versions).

BTW: Marco de Flores is also a portuguese-french. Interesting how quite some of them worked with the Atari ST...

Last edited by PortuguesePilot; 02 February 2017 at 21:14.
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Old 02 February 2017, 21:26   #32
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The SNES version is the best port anyway. Better graphics, better controls and enhanced game play. The only one worth playing today imo (though i like the C64 version for the technical achievement).
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Old 02 February 2017, 21:46   #33
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The SNES version is the best port anyway. Better graphics, better controls and enhanced game play. The only one worth playing today imo (though i like the C64 version for the technical achievement).
The Spectrum version is more impressive technically.
The console ports should have looked better they came out 2-3 years after the computer versions!
Plus the snes is a lot easier in gameplay, people should play a couple of different versions as it's not the definite version imo because of the change of difficulty.
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Old 02 February 2017, 21:50   #34
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I don't think the SNES version is really easier. Still a tough game. The most other ports have bad controls which make them look harder. Just had a look at the Spectrum version. Sorry, not really playable for me. Maybe a nice achievement but nothing i would play these days. Some kind of late Russian port with keyboard only controls.

Last edited by Retro-Nerd; 02 February 2017 at 22:15.
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Old 02 February 2017, 22:18   #35
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Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd View Post
I don't think the SNES version is really easier. Still a tough game. The most other ports have bad controls which make them looks harder. Just had a look at the Spectrum version. Sorry, not really playable for me. Maybe a nice achievement but nothing i would play these days. Some kind of late Russian port with keyboard only controls.
Interesting how things are, heh? I really don't care much for the SNES version (though I reckon its merits) and lately I'm on a Spectrum Nostalgia binge and I'm playing several games on the Fuse emulator for my PSP. Prince of Persia is one of the games that I play avidly. These discrepancies in opinions just come to show that retrogaming is as multi-flavoured and varied as the people that engage in it.

Back on topic:

1943 - The Battle of Midway is probably better than the Amiga version (parallax clouds) and the Amiga music sucks (for the Amiga's potential, that is)

ST's version of Super Skweek has speech, which is absent on the Amiga version (though, overall, I still prefer the latter).

Some folks say that Captain Blood is also better on the ST, but the Amiga is a rushed ST "shovelware" port anyway...

And lastly, somehow (maybe due to the that tiny bit extra [0.8Hz] CPU frequency) most heavily-3D games seem slightly more fluid on the ST, though fluidity by itself is not enough to make a version "better".
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Old 02 February 2017, 22:28   #36
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Defender of the Crown: The Amiga version looks and sound better but the gameplay on the ST is better (on C64 too).
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Old 02 February 2017, 22:57   #37
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Originally Posted by dlfrsilver View Post
I have the game and i ran it on my ST and STE, and the ST version has no slowdown. the sprite moves very smoothly.

Honestly, they should have done the game from the ST version on the Amiga instead of the PC version.

The Amiga version has terrifying slowndowns in many places in the game.....
I can't find a video on youtube of gameplay on real st hardware. All the videos have terrible slowdown, assume this is due to emulation issues. Would you consider doing a video of a level on real hardware to prove you are right?
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Old 03 February 2017, 00:50   #38
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Originally Posted by dlfrsilver View Post
The Amiga version is only using 16 colors, and those are worse than those used on the ST version.

Prince of Persia is one of the game were the Amiga version is a fail and where the ST version is better : graphically, sonically and playability wise.

For a reason, this ST version is the one used to make the CPC version. They used the ST assets.

The graphics were done by the loriciel graphist called Marco de Florès, and the game was coded by jean claude Levy, a microids coder.

Michel Winogradoff did the soundtrack, which is sampled based.

I have the game running on my STF with 1mb of ram. The introduction, all the intermede screens are enhanced and beautiful, and i insist, there are NO slowdown at all in this version. The ST version was made mostly in ASM, where the Amiga version is coded in C crap.



Ok, put your amiga aside your ST, and now check about the slowdowns.

You'll quickly see that your Amiga will have awful slowdown, with the framerate going down as far as 2 frames per seconds.

This never happens in the ST version, and it has music and digitized SFX, with voices when the sprite is hit. The Amiga version is _VERY_ poor in this regard.



Just check the Amiga version. You need a 68020 to see the slowdown disappear.



That's wrong. The Amiga version has not 1/3 of the colors the ST version has.

If it was possible, it would even be awesome if the ST version could be ported on the Amiga.



That's wrong, the Amiga version use the same resolution. Marco de Florès reworked the original assets coming from the PC to make them better.



That's for the Amiga version. As soon as you have a trap running, a guard, that's it, the sprite run at 2 frames per sec.



The ST version has :

* Better graphics (reworked, enhanced, bigger palette)
* Better animation (hands up !)
* No slowdowns like the Amiga version (no crap 2 fps slideshow)
* Digital music and sound

The Amiga version is just a crude port of the PC version with unoptimized code C, low quality graphics in 16 colors, awful slowdown.

Shame for a game with such an amount of sprite frames.

Sorry Denis, you're wrong.

The Amiga version is 32 colours throughout, titlescreen and in the game itself, whether or not they've been adequately used is opinion, but 32 colour mode is being used.

Also whilst its nice the ST version uses digitized sound, its not as clear as the Amiga version.
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Old 03 February 2017, 02:41   #39
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Sorry Denis, you're wrong.

The Amiga version is 32 colours throughout, titlescreen and in the game itself, whether or not they've been adequately used is opinion, but 32 colour mode is being used.

Also whilst its nice the ST version uses digitized sound, its not as clear as the Amiga version.
I think the main sprite lacks detail compared to the ST version.
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Old 03 February 2017, 10:27   #40
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I played the ST version of PoP back in the day and it's really faster than the Amiga version. There are slowdowns sometimes, though, when many things come on screen.
In matter of playability, I prefer the ST version.

Some graphics on the ST are better, some graphics on the Amiga are better.
I speak from memory, but AFAIR ST graphics are more polished and Amiga graphics are more colorful.
So the situation is more or less equal here.

Sound is overall better on the ST ; Amiga sounds have higher replay quality because the hardware is superior, but they don't fit really well.

The best version would probably be some kind of hybrid ; based on ST with graphic elements taken from Amiga (and ST sounds played with Amiga quality).
Perhaps i could attempt to make it but i lack the time and motivation for this.
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