Amibian/amiberry on Raspberry Pi 1

[Overmann]

I have a RasPi1 model B that I'm trying to set up for my brother. I know it's an old Pi but I was still hoping to get a setup running nicely on it but I'm having a VERY hard time.


I have all the files moved over and I've configured an A1200 with 32mb ram. HDD's are directories on the SD running WB 3.1. The problem is that it's incredibly slow. Just moving the mouse around is a slideshow. I've overclocked the PI to 1ghz but it made little difference.

Is there something I'm missing? Is it at all possible to get amiberry/amibian running well on a Pi1 model B or will I have to get another Pi? I just need it to perform like an A1200 with a little more ram.


I'm not an experienced "emulator" so I might very well be missing some crucial parameter in the config. Frameskip did very little though.

[rare_j]

The Pi1 is great for a lot of tasks, but not emulation.
I've never tried Workbench on my Pi3, but it plays A500 games ok.
Your best bet is a Pi4 as it has the best CPU.

[Hungry Horace]

Amiberry isnt going to perform well on a Pi1 or Pi0, certainly not for A1200 and not without frameskip; it just doesnt have the CPU power.

You might have a little more luck with the older uae4arm, because it's based on an oder version of UAE, but in my experiece it was still unplayable.

Pi 2,3 and 4 though perform great with Amiberry however, with just some minor incompatiblities on a handful of games.

[Overmann]

Yeah, I suspected as much. Would going with a Pi4 or 3 result in a solid experience? If I have to buy another I might as well buy a ram-expansion for my brother as it costs just a little more then a new Pi 4.

[manossg]

Originally Posted by Overmann

Yeah, I suspected as much. Would going with a Pi4 or 3 result in a solid experience? If I have to buy another I might as well buy a ram-expansion for my brother as it costs just a little more then a new Pi 4.

I swear by the combination Pi4+Amiberry, it's pure Amiga bliss, seconded only by the real thing for me.

[Overmann]

Originally Posted by manossg

I swear by the combination Pi4+Amiberry, it's pure Amiga bliss, seconded only by the real thing for me.

Cool! How about input lag? I have a couple of USB competition Pro sticks. Is that good or would it be better to use real sticks with some sort of converter?

[manossg]

I also use a USB competition pro with my RPi4 and it plays very well, I haven't noticed any lag when I compare it with real hardware.

[dreadnought]

Amiga on RPi is quite good, but comparing it to real hardware is a bit of a stretch. RPi has inherent input lag on all platforms, I think minimum is ~3 frames if you use dispmanx. if you also have a laggy TV this can add up to a lot.

Some games (probably not many though) will also suffer from the lack of cycle accuracy.

So if you want a "solid" experience then by all means go for it, but for "pure bliss" I'd recommend MiST or MiSTer FPGA boards (these cost 5-7 times as much as RPi though).

[manossg]

Originally Posted by dreadnought

Amiga on RPi is quite good, but comparing it to real hardware is a bit of a stretch. RPi has inherent input lag on all platforms, I think minimum is ~3 frames if you use dispmanx. if you also have a laggy TV this can add up to a lot.

Some games (probably not many though) will also suffer from the lack of cycle accuracy.

So if you want a "solid" experience then by all means go for it, but for "pure bliss" I'd recommend MiST or MiSTer FPGA boards (these cost 5-7 times as much as RPi though).

Since it's not the first time that you use such a tone in your replies, I will respectfully answer to you.

I have used A500 and RPi4 side by side and, as far as how it plays, I feel it's 99.99%, if not 100% perfect for almost every game that I have tried. I have only found a problem with Leander not stopping during the level briefing (for which I am not sure RPi/Amiberry is to blame), but apart from that, everything is the same and, if any lag is present, it is not noticeable.

You seem to preach cycle-accurate emulation, etc in your posts, but I feel you are stuck in technical stuff. If I didn't have the Amiberry experience, I would read your posts and think: "Wow, this guy really knows what he's talking about". Well, I have tried Amiberry and I think you don't (know what you're talking about) and I feel you are missing the forest for the trees. The OP wants a great Amiga experience, not the emulation Olympics medal.

[Overmann]

Yeah, I sort of torn between the RPi and a memory expansion for my brother. You see he already HAS an A1200, but lacks the memory to use WHDload. And he has a family and not a lot of time on his hands but want's to play the Amiga every now and then, and show some of the games to his kids. A memory expansion might be a better option as it would be sitting in an ACTUAL amiga with a HDD full of great games, but the RPi could be in a little drawer right next to his TV, ready for action on short notice. So it's a bit of a trade off in both ways.

[manossg]

Originally Posted by Overmann

Yeah, I sort of torn between the RPi and a memory expansion for my brother. You see he already HAS an A1200, but lacks the memory to use WHDload. And he has a family and not a lot of time on his hands but want's to play the Amiga every now and then, and show some of the games to his kids. A memory expansion might be a better option as it would be sitting in an ACTUAL amiga with a HDD full of great games, but the RPi could be in a little drawer right next to his TV, ready for action on short notice. So it's a bit of a trade off in both ways.

If he only wants miggy games, I would definitely go for the real thing. But if he also wants some C64, ScummVm, etc, the rasperry is a great all rounder!

[Overmann]

Originally Posted by manossg

If he only wants miggy games, I would definitely go for the real thing. But if he also wants some C64, ScummVm, etc, the rasperry is a great all rounder!

Yeah, he might appreciate C64 on there at least. I'll have to give it a think but It's good to know that the latency is negligable.

[Overmann]

Originally Posted by manossg

But if he also wants some C64, ScummVm, etc, the rasperry is a great all rounder!

What would be the best way to get a multiEmu-setup going on the RPi 4? Is there a distro for that somewhere?

[manossg]

Originally Posted by Overmann

What would be the best way to get a multiEmu-setup going on the RPi 4? Is there a distro for that somewhere?

I use RetroPie. There is also lakka, which has an official RPi4 version (RetroPie does not-yet), but I think lakka doesn't support Amiga emulation (I am not sure). There are others as well.

[dreadnought]

Originally Posted by manossg

Since it's not the first time that you use such a tone in your replies, I will respectfully answer to you.

I have used A500 and RPi4 side by side and, as far as how it plays, I feel it's 99.99%, if not 100% perfect for almost every game that I have tried. I have only found a problem with Leander not stopping during the level briefing (for which I am not sure RPi/Amiberry is to blame), but apart from that, everything is the same and, if any lag is present, it is not noticeable.

You seem to preach cycle-accurate emulation, etc in your posts, but I feel you are stuck in technical stuff. If I didn't have the Amiberry experience, I would read your posts and think: "Wow, this guy really knows what he's talking about". Well, I have tried Amiberry and I think you don't (know what you're talking about) and I feel you are missing the forest for the trees. The OP wants a great Amiga experience, not the emulation Olympics medal.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by my "tone". I thought my reply was pretty tone-less and matter-of-factly. Unless you have a problem in general with people disagreeing with your opinions, but unfortunately there's not much can be done about it.

The main thing here is that when it comes to technical stuff feelings are not the best yardstick. I personally prefer to stick to facts. The lag and some games not working because of lack of cycle accuracy are facts, and I'm not preaching but simply stating them. if you have no problem with that then it's great, but for some people these things are important and knowing them might help them make an informed decision (especially when like OP they specifically ask about them).

Overall, your "emulation Olympics" and "preaching" jibes are rather unfair I think, despite a promise of respectful reply. This was my reply's conclusion after all:

"So if you want a "solid" experience then by all means go for it".

This is a recommendation - from someone who has been running Amiga on an RPi for the last 3 years. I'm sorry that it does not align with your over-enthusiastic and factually incorrect claims about the quality of RPi emulation, but as I said earlier I prefer factual statements to emotional ones.

[Overmann]

I absolutely appreciate you insight, @dreadnought and I'm greatful you took the time to reply. Input lag and cycle accuracy is absolutely a concern for me, but I don't know if it is for my brother. :P

I am undesided at the moment. I might go with a ram expansions, but the retropi route looks tempting. I suspect that part of the appeal is the Amiga itself. I'm not sure.

[fxgogo]

So what if you do this, take the ‘old 1200’ off your brothers hands, and give him a ‘new’ raspberry pi...??. I am sure the reduced clutter will be worth the trade.
I have both at the moment, along with winuae on my pc. All three serve their purpose, but I use the real amiga the least, as I have to unpack it each time I use it. My pc emulator gets used the most as it is right there on the desktop.
My kids prefer the real hardware. They love the novelty of inserting disks and hearing the sounds of the drive. And that for me is priceless.

[manossg]

Originally Posted by dreadnought

I'm not quite sure what you mean by my "tone". I thought my reply was pretty tone-less and matter-of-factly. Unless you have a problem in general with people disagreeing with your opinions, but unfortunately there's not much can be done about it.

I understand that my reply came across as less respectful than what I intended. I own that one and I apologize for it.

Originally Posted by dreadnought

The main thing here is that when it comes to technical stuff feelings are not the best yardstick. I personally prefer to stick to facts. The lag and some games not working because of lack of cycle accuracy are facts, and I'm not preaching but simply stating them. if you have no problem with that then it's great, but for some people these things are important and knowing them might help them make an informed decision (especially when like OP they specifically ask about them).

I am with you on the facts thing. But allow me to use an example; there are parts of the sound spectrum that are inaudible by the human ear. That doesn't mean that they're not there, it just means that we cannot perceive them.

That's the case with your statement. Yes, it might be a fact, but it's an irrelevant fact. I remember even the developer of Amiberry himself (who, allow me to believe, knows the facts better that both of us) telling that "cycle accuracy is very rarely needed", yet here you return every time Amiberry is mentioned. That's why I use the term "preaching".

Midwan's post:
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=100566&page=2

Apart from that, I would like to ask you if you have actually tried running a RPi4 with your real Amiga side by side. I am as much an Amigan as the next guy and I am really put off by things not being just as I remember them. I understand that nostalgia plays an important factor, that's why I tried some stuff side by side and, guess what, no (discernible) difference.

Your attitude (every time Amiberry is mentioned, up goes dreadnought with his cycle accuracy nagging) suggests an unpleasant or sub-par experience with Amiberry and I am struggling to understand what it is you're missing in the actual use of this emulator. Perhaps I am the one who is missing some Amiga powers of perception?
If you noticed some difference, then I think that you should check your setup (ie power supply, a laggy TV, etc).

Originally Posted by dreadnought

I'm sorry that it does not align with your over-enthusiastic and factually incorrect claims about the quality of RPi emulation, but as I said earlier I prefer factual statements to emotional ones.

I am very happy with people disagreeing with me, it makes the world a more interesting place, but here I think that you are the one who is being unfair towards an excellent -and free- piece of software. You also seem to be (and I believe that's a fact) one of a very small minority, in eab, retropie/Amiberry related forums that has such an issue and elevates it to objective reality that everybody should bow to. Of course, being part of a majority does not imply correctness but maybe you should cool your head and give Amiberry a second chance with a proper setup and your miggy side by side?

You are also wrong about me being enthusiastic about RPi emulation. I am actually enthusiastic about the Amiga experience. And that's what Amiberry provides, with excellent performance and ease of use.

[Hungry Horace]

I can name only two games i cant play on Amiberry due to the lack of cycle-accurate emulation;

- Hostages.
- Skidmarks (although I dont *know* this one is because of it, and i havent actually tried it on the latest version)

There may (must) be more, but i'm yet to find them.

For the record, i run an A1200, a CD32, Amiberry (on Pi's 2,3 and 4) and FS-UAE (OSX).

I find Amiberry to be an excellent experience, and it is perfectly possible (particualrly with the Pi4) to have it running with no notificable lag. My goto test as a benchmark is SWOS which i play regualrly on all the machines, and which any present lag would be frustratingly noticable.

The lag i have encountered has been caused by either the TV of choice (sometimes just its input mode) or a specific input controller driver - in both cases i have managed to resolve the issue by using alternatives.

Whilst I accept that it *must* be there, I would like to see the evidence of quantified 'inherent' lag on the PI4 however if it is able to be produced - if nothing else to satisfy my curiosity as to what I would clearly therefore consider be a 'reasonable' tolerance for future reference.


The advantages of using the RPi for Amiga emulation imho are many;

- Low cost
- High level of compatibility for games
- Abilty to emulate other systems
- Ability to use the system as a media player
- Small form factor
- Ease of connectivity to various screens, TVs and Input devices with no added hardware

Originally Posted by Overmann

What would be the best way to get a multiEmu-setup going on the RPi 4? Is there a distro for that somewhere?

I recently installed the RetroPie weekly build - for Pi4. So far it is holding up excellently.

However, you need to weigh up what you consider your preferences/requirements to be - there are no right or wrong answers as to what you prefer

[dreadnought]

Originally Posted by Hungry Horace

I can name only two games i cant play on Amiberry due to the lack of cycle-accurate emulation[...]

There may (must) be more, but i'm yet to find them.

I know of Barbarian and It Came From The Desert. It so happens the latter is my favourite Amiga game and I'd really appreciate knowing it does not work if considering RPi as my main Amiga machine. As it is, I still use Amiberry for quick tests and when I travel, but if I had to choose only one emulation box for Amiga it'd be either a PC or an FPGA.

Originally Posted by Hungry Horace

I find Amiberry to be an excellent experience, and it is perfectly possible (particualrly with the Pi4) to have it running with no notificable lag. My goto test as a benchmark is SWOS which i play regualrly on all the machines, and which any present lag would be frustratingly noticable.

The perception of lag varies wildly from person to person, therefore what is not noticeable to you might be noticeable to somebody else. I personally don't have a big problem with lag (even sometimes play arcade games on RPi for high score clubs) but, again, this is only my perception so I'd never state it as a definite answer (plus I use a CRT TV).

As for numbers, I don't know of any Amiberry-specific tests, but you can read the rather in-depth Input Lag Investigation, written by libretro devs. They measure RPi input lag for NES/SNES somewhere ~5-8 frames (depending on settings). I suppose values for Amiberry could be in similar range. If you combine it with high-latency display and/or controlers things can get rather ugly (though I've heard many, many times people describing such setups as "it's fine" & "I don't feel any lag", which is another reason why personal anecdotes are not that helpful regarding this subject).

Once again, these are just facts, and it's helpful to know them. Amiberry is still a pretty good and interesting solution for Amiga emulation, and as previously stated I do recommend it, as long as one is aware of its limitations. It's definitely not "perfect" though - not even FPGA cores are that (though defintely much closer to what this word defines).