Help with X Copy

carloratm · 24 February 2014, 10:00

Hi folks,
I have questions about X-Copy.

I am able to format a floppy without errors.
Then, running checkdisk on the same floppy, I got some "Header checksum error" and "Data block checksum error" (got the codes from here: http://jope.fi/xcopy/errors.html ).

1. Is the formatted floppy usable, can I trust on it, or do I have to fix those errors?
2. Is it possible to actually fix those errors?

Thank you, I am a real novice about X Copy and Amiga in general.

Just learning something new every day

cpiac64 · 24 February 2014, 11:38

some error is normal in the original disk, is a protection on copy

with xcopy and dongle, you can copy the block protected

the copy now have the same block with protection

BarryB · 24 February 2014, 12:22

Does it produce those errors with all the disks you have formatted then checked?

carloratm · 24 February 2014, 12:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarryB

Does it produce those errors with all the disks you have formatted then checked?

No, just some of them.

BarryB · 24 February 2014, 12:55

If you have an external drive, format them in that then check them in the internal, if they pass then do it the other way around, format in the internal and check in the external.

If you only get problems when formatting the same disks in the internal, but pass in the external drive chances are your internal drive needs a clean or re-alignment! Also check the data cable is secure on the internal drive and board.

demolition · 24 February 2014, 12:58

Could be faulty disks, or could be a faulty floppy drive. In any case, a newly formatted floppy should not report any errors when you check it afterwards.
The floppy drive in my 500+ would read errors after formatting a disk, however it would not read errors from disks formatted in other drives, so the problem was that the drive could not write data properly. It was caused by a leaking capacitor and after replacing it, the problem was solved.

BarryB · 24 February 2014, 13:15

@demolition: Normally Verify Error 8 is most common error I've seen on bad disks, but error 4 and 6 I have never had, except with custom format disks! Where abouts on the board was that leaky cap?

demolition · 24 February 2014, 13:29

Right in the front of the drive, about where the LED would be. It is a little tricky to get to, but if you move the disk mechanism out of the way, it can be done. The square IC next to it had green fur on the legs, a clear indicator of leaking acid. From what I have seen, only Panasonic drives have this issue as my Chinon models does not have electrolytic SMD caps which can leak.
There is also another SMD cap in the back of the drive, however that one was not leaking on my drive (replaced it anyway though).

carloratm · 24 February 2014, 13:43

No external drive here.

Another n00b question: what is the difference between format and qformat commands ?
Is there an online documentation resource about x copy ?

Thanks

demolition · 24 February 2014, 13:50

Qformat assumes the disk is already Amiga DOS formatted and then only formats the few sectors which will wipe the file table so it will read as an empty disk. File contents are left intact on the disk.

BarryB · 24 February 2014, 18:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by demolition

Right in the front of the drive, about where the LED would be. It is a little tricky to get to, but if you move the disk mechanism out of the way, it can be done. The square IC next to it had green fur on the legs, a clear indicator of leaking acid. From what I have seen, only Panasonic drives have this issue as my Chinon models does not have electrolytic SMD caps which can leak.
There is also another SMD cap in the back of the drive, however that one was not leaking on my drive (replaced it anyway though).

Thanks for the info, useful to know!

@carloratm: Do you have a Panasonic drive by any chance

carloratm · 25 February 2014, 18:55

No I do not own a Panasonic.

Now I am getting this:
Same floppy, multiple checkdisk runs, each time a different result.
Sometimes it could be all 0s, sometime some random 6s.

Is it a clear floppy drive issue ?

demolition · 25 February 2014, 19:11

Was the disk formatted fully in that drive? If yes and you can reproduce the same thing with another floppy then it is very likely to be a problem with the drive. To be sure, you'd need to test the same floppies in another drive for comparison.

Are the errors only on one side of the disk or equally on both sides?

What is the model of the floppy drive?

carloratm · 25 February 2014, 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by demolition

Was the disk formatted fully in that drive? If yes and you can reproduce the same thing with another floppy then it is very likely to be a problem with the drive. To be sure, you'd need to test the same floppies in another drive for comparison.

Are the errors only on one side of the disk or equally on both sides?

What is the model of the floppy drive?

I do not have another drive

Errors are both sides.

It is a Chinon fz 354

demolition · 25 February 2014, 20:06

But you must have another floppy to test in it?
No problematic caps in that drive model. I'd clean the heads and see if that would help.

BarryB · 25 February 2014, 20:19

FZ-354, is that from an A1200 as that is the same drive in my A1200? Also, are these DD or HD disks your are formatting? You could check the drive heads aren't loose or the grease on the runners hasn't dried up, and at a push swap the CIA chips over!

carloratm · 25 February 2014, 21:41

Yes, it happens with all floppies.

Ok, I will try cleaning it.
I bought this https://amigakit.leamancomputing.com...roducts_id=276

Hope this will help.

Thank you

BarryB · 25 February 2014, 22:22

If you do use that, try to put some isopropyl alcohol on it unless it's already impregnated with something. Personally I do it manually with a cotton bud dampened in IPA.

carloratm · 26 February 2014, 11:14

Ok, I have removed the drive, tonight I am going to use compressed air and IPA, while waiting for the parcel from amigakit:

TroelsDK · 26 February 2014, 12:27

That 'cleaner'-disk doesn't work for shit! It's more like a fancy dust blocker. You need a disk that will spin when inserted.

24 February 2014, 10:00	#1
carloratm Registered User Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Pistoia Posts: 57	Help with X Copy Hi folks, I have questions about X-Copy. I am able to format a floppy without errors. Then, running checkdisk on the same floppy, I got some "Header checksum error" and "Data block checksum error" (got the codes from here: http://jope.fi/xcopy/errors.html ). 1. Is the formatted floppy usable, can I trust on it, or do I have to fix those errors? 2. Is it possible to actually fix those errors? Thank you, I am a real novice about X Copy and Amiga in general. Just learning something new every day

26 February 2014, 12:27	#20
TroelsDK Registered Amiga Maniac Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Denmark Age: 40 Posts: 385	That 'cleaner'-disk doesn't work for shit! It's more like a fancy dust blocker. You need a disk that will spin when inserted. Attached Thumbnails

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24 February 2014, 11:38	#2
cpiac64 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Italy Posts: 1,136	some error is normal in the original disk, is a protection on copy with xcopy and dongle, you can copy the block protected the copy now have the same block with protection

24 February 2014, 12:22	#3
BarryB Amigaholic Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: UK Posts: 4,677	Does it produce those errors with all the disks you have formatted then checked?

24 February 2014, 12:55	#5
BarryB Amigaholic Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: UK Posts: 4,677	If you have an external drive, format them in that then check them in the internal, if they pass then do it the other way around, format in the internal and check in the external. If you only get problems when formatting the same disks in the internal, but pass in the external drive chances are your internal drive needs a clean or re-alignment! Also check the data cable is secure on the internal drive and board.

24 February 2014, 12:58	#6
demolition Unregistered User Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Copenhagen / DK Age: 43 Posts: 4,190	Could be faulty disks, or could be a faulty floppy drive. In any case, a newly formatted floppy should not report any errors when you check it afterwards. The floppy drive in my 500+ would read errors after formatting a disk, however it would not read errors from disks formatted in other drives, so the problem was that the drive could not write data properly. It was caused by a leaking capacitor and after replacing it, the problem was solved.

24 February 2014, 13:15	#7
BarryB Amigaholic Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: UK Posts: 4,677	@demolition: Normally Verify Error 8 is most common error I've seen on bad disks, but error 4 and 6 I have never had, except with custom format disks! Where abouts on the board was that leaky cap?

24 February 2014, 13:29	#8
demolition Unregistered User Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Copenhagen / DK Age: 43 Posts: 4,190	Right in the front of the drive, about where the LED would be. It is a little tricky to get to, but if you move the disk mechanism out of the way, it can be done. The square IC next to it had green fur on the legs, a clear indicator of leaking acid. From what I have seen, only Panasonic drives have this issue as my Chinon models does not have electrolytic SMD caps which can leak. There is also another SMD cap in the back of the drive, however that one was not leaking on my drive (replaced it anyway though).

24 February 2014, 13:43	#9
carloratm Registered User Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Pistoia Posts: 57	No external drive here. Another n00b question: what is the difference between format and qformat commands ? Is there an online documentation resource about x copy ? Thanks

24 February 2014, 13:50	#10
demolition Unregistered User Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Copenhagen / DK Age: 43 Posts: 4,190	Qformat assumes the disk is already Amiga DOS formatted and then only formats the few sectors which will wipe the file table so it will read as an empty disk. File contents are left intact on the disk.

25 February 2014, 18:55	#12
carloratm Registered User Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Pistoia Posts: 57	No I do not own a Panasonic. Now I am getting this: Same floppy, multiple checkdisk runs, each time a different result. Sometimes it could be all 0s, sometime some random 6s. Is it a clear floppy drive issue ?

25 February 2014, 19:11	#13
demolition Unregistered User Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Copenhagen / DK Age: 43 Posts: 4,190	Was the disk formatted fully in that drive? If yes and you can reproduce the same thing with another floppy then it is very likely to be a problem with the drive. To be sure, you'd need to test the same floppies in another drive for comparison. Are the errors only on one side of the disk or equally on both sides? What is the model of the floppy drive?

25 February 2014, 20:06	#15
demolition Unregistered User Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Copenhagen / DK Age: 43 Posts: 4,190	But you must have another floppy to test in it? No problematic caps in that drive model. I'd clean the heads and see if that would help.

25 February 2014, 20:19	#16
BarryB Amigaholic Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: UK Posts: 4,677	FZ-354, is that from an A1200 as that is the same drive in my A1200? Also, are these DD or HD disks your are formatting? You could check the drive heads aren't loose or the grease on the runners hasn't dried up, and at a push swap the CIA chips over!

25 February 2014, 21:41	#17
carloratm Registered User Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Pistoia Posts: 57	Yes, it happens with all floppies. Ok, I will try cleaning it. I bought this https://amigakit.leamancomputing.com...roducts_id=276 Hope this will help. Thank you

25 February 2014, 22:22	#18
BarryB Amigaholic Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: UK Posts: 4,677	If you do use that, try to put some isopropyl alcohol on it unless it's already impregnated with something. Personally I do it manually with a cotton bud dampened in IPA.

26 February 2014, 11:14	#19
carloratm Registered User Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Pistoia Posts: 57	Ok, I have removed the drive, tonight I am going to use compressed air and IPA, while waiting for the parcel from amigakit:

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