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Old 05 January 2019, 09:39   #401
kolla
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McTrinsic View Post
I beg to differ. There was a huge significant effort of testing going into the release. The situation has vastly improved compared to 3.1 ROMs.

Beg all you like, factum is that the shell that ships with KS 3.1.4 has a serious bug that will forever haunt the users and developers.

3.1 is well known, its flaws and bugs are well understood, patches and fixes are plentyful. It will take years to reach this level of understanding for the current 3.1.4 kickstarts, and only a fraction of users are upgrading anyways. I already have scripts that checks for shell v46 and bail out with EndCLI if such is the case (something weird even with internal Quit it seems, in v46).
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Old 06 January 2019, 00:24   #402
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Picture from Cloanto's site... funny to see how they promote their emulator... with a nice and fully coloured WB... from Hyperion
OK, easy joke... nevertheless
(I have lowered the resolution a bit not to kill my attachment space)
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Old 06 January 2019, 04:56   #403
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Originally Posted by kolla View Post
Beg all you like, factum is that the shell that ships with KS 3.1.4 has a serious bug that will forever haunt the users and developers.
Please expand.
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Old 06 January 2019, 13:33   #404
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Please expand.

Shell v46 that ships in the 3.1.4 kickstart does not respect failat levels, so scripts keep running even when commands fail.
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Old 06 January 2019, 13:36   #405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kolla View Post
Shell v46 that ships in the 3.1.4 kickstart does not respect failat levels, so scripts keep running even when commands fail.


And there is no possible way around that?
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Old 06 January 2019, 13:40   #406
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AmigaOS 3.1.4 withdrawn from market after Amiga

Quote:
Originally Posted by McTrinsic View Post
And there is no possible way around that?

Feel free to think out a way around that also works with existing scripts and when people just insert a random old floppy.

The work-around is to fix and ship new kickstarts to all customers. Instead it will probably be tried to fix in a new SetPatch, which then all users would need to stuff on all their boot filesystems, floppies etc. and what to do if Setpatch fails? Or hopefully through a new ROM module, and we are back to rebooting and loading modules again...
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Old 06 January 2019, 13:53   #407
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@kolla
sry 4 ot, but can you look into your pms?
thx
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Old 06 January 2019, 17:32   #408
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Originally Posted by kolla View Post
Shell v46 that ships in the 3.1.4 kickstart does not respect failat levels, so scripts keep running even when commands fail.
Wow, how could that pass?

I can just imagine wasting several hours making a correct script behave, then giving up thinking you're an idiot.
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Old 06 January 2019, 17:46   #409
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Originally Posted by idrougge View Post
Wow, how could that pass?

I can just imagine wasting several hours making a correct script behave, then giving up thinking you're an idiot.

I think that I've found this problem a few days ago using pipe
I give a command like the following:


Code:
cd SYS: || list
or:
Code:
 
cd SYS: && list

(is it possible to add set _mchar "&&" in S:shell-startup file instead of set _mchar "||" )


What I get is the list of the current directory.
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Old 06 January 2019, 18:18   #410
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Originally Posted by kolla View Post
[...] factum is that the shell that ships with KS 3.1.4 has a serious bug that will forever haunt the users and developers. [...]
Without all these court "things" they could already be in a position to propose corrective fix.

Regarding the linked document, I have to say that since UK is not my mother-tongue it's more than probable that I understand the documents in a slightly different way as some of you here in EAB (that are native UK speaking people). Anyway, after a second reading I can easily understand the agreement in the same way as Hyperion did. The way it is written make me think that the OS number was set to 4 "like this" (as an example). They just said 4 like they could have said 3.1.2 or 3.2 or 3.3 or etc.
Again it's the understanding from a non native UK speaker. I don't want to rewrite the story, just to share my understanding.
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Old 06 January 2019, 18:50   #411
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Originally Posted by jurassicman View Post
I think that I've found this problem a few days ago using pipe
I give a command like the following:


Code:
cd SYS: || list
or:
Code:
 
cd SYS: && list

(is it possible to add set _mchar "&&" in S:shell-startup file instead of set _mchar "||" )


What I get is the list of the current directory.


First of all, in v46, _pchar and _mchar variables are no longer used, they are hard coded to | and ||.

Secondly, external "pipe" command is no longer used, instead piping is done internally, (apparently using "jobs", as you can see with "set echo on", it uses &, and this also requires CONSOLE: to be available, so you can no longer run scripts in the background that uses pipes... meh.)

Thirdly, I think what you describe is correct - you run two commands in parallel, one cd sys:, which is sileny, and one list, that just lists out current directly. I haven't really used this feature much, did it behave differently in earlier shell versions?
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Old 06 January 2019, 18:59   #412
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Originally Posted by kolla View Post
First of all, in v46, _pchar and _mchar variables are no longer used, they are hard coded to | and ||.
not really an improvident

Quote:
Secondly, external "pipe" command is no longer used, instead piping is done internally, (apparently using "jobs", as you can see with "set echo on", it uses &, and this also requires CONSOLE: to be available, so you can no longer run scripts in the background that uses pipes... meh.)
wtf ... who made that decision and WHY???
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Old 06 January 2019, 19:13   #413
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malko View Post
Without all these court "things" they could already be in a position to propose corrective fix.

Regarding the linked document, I have to say that since UK is not my mother-tongue it's more than probable that I understand the documents in a slightly different way as some of you here in EAB (that are native UK speaking people). Anyway, after a second reading I can easily understand the agreement in the same way as Hyperion did. The way it is written make me think that the OS number was set to 4 "like this" (as an example). They just said 4 like they could have said 3.1.2 or 3.2 or 3.3 or etc.
Again it's the understanding from a non native UK speaker. I don't want to rewrite the story, just to share my understanding.
The contract will be taken as a whole rather than a single passage, so taking some wording in the contract and twisting it into something which the other parties didn't agree to, and which runs contradictory to the rest of the contract could render the whole agreement invalid (The "Meeting of minds" quote in one of the documents).

It'll be interesting to see how Hyperion respond.
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Old 06 January 2019, 21:01   #414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kolla View Post
First of all, in v46, _pchar and _mchar variables are no longer used, they are hard coded to | and ||.

Secondly, external "pipe" command is no longer used, instead piping is done internally, (apparently using "jobs", as you can see with "set echo on", it uses &, and this also requires CONSOLE: to be available, so you can no longer run scripts in the background that uses pipes... meh.)

Thirdly, I think what you describe is correct - you run two commands in parallel, one cd sys:, which is sileny, and one list, that just lists out current directly. I haven't really used this feature much, did it behave differently in earlier shell versions?

I'm not aware of the technical aspects inside the Amiga Shell but yes, in the previous version I was able to execute two commands on the same line using "&&" and in fact I wrote a few scripts that did so and that now don't work anymore.


I've also faced the "CONSOLE" request running one of them and I "fixed" that with a silly assign on my startup-sequence


Code:
Assign >NIL: CONSOLE: DH0:

I know it's just a workaround but I really don't know a better solution.
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Old 06 January 2019, 21:19   #415
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Originally Posted by Mr.Flibble View Post
The contract will be taken as a whole rather than a single passage, so taking some wording in the contract and twisting it into something which the other parties didn't agree to, and which runs contradictory to the rest of the contract could render the whole agreement invalid (The "Meeting of minds" quote in one of the documents). [...]
You are right. We are missing important informations that doens't allow us to have a detailed view of the story. Would be interesting if these contract were available for reading.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Flibble View Post
[...] It'll be interesting to see how Hyperion respond.
Yep.
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Old 06 January 2019, 22:22   #416
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You are right. We are missing important informations that doens't allow us to have a detailed view of the story. Would be interesting if these contract were available for reading.
Hmm, it should be I think as it's a submitted document to the court...
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Old 06 January 2019, 23:13   #417
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Found this but it's not free
Quote:
PACER Fees and Case Currency

Access to case information costs $0.10 per page. The cost to access a single document is capped at $3.00, the equivalent of 30 pages. The cap does not apply to name searches, reports that are not case-specific, or transcripts of federal court proceedings.

By Judicial Conference policy, if usage does not exceed $15 in a quarter, fees are waived.

Newly filed cases will typically appear on this system within 24 hours. Check the Court Information page for data that is currently available on the PCL. The most recent data is available directly from the court.
Following this link (from another post), I can see that there are a lot of documents to read and for all those I clicked on, I was asked to register (with a payment plan). Unless another solution to access the documents free of charge (as unlike a lawyer, I don't get paid for it ), think I will wait for official news.

Last edited by malko; 07 January 2019 at 10:20. Reason: link separed
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Old 06 January 2019, 23:27   #418
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Well sounds like the situation we had since 3.1 release. Like adding a big Harddrive without a patched SCSI.device and / or FFS and / or HDToolBox.

Nothing new to me.

E.g. take the old shell and add it via LoadModule.

Furthermore the new shell does respect most failats - not all, obviously.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kolla View Post
Feel free to think out a way around that also works with existing scripts and when people just insert a random old floppy.

The work-around is to fix and ship new kickstarts to all customers. Instead it will probably be tried to fix in a new SetPatch, which then all users would need to stuff on all their boot filesystems, floppies etc. and what to do if Setpatch fails? Or hopefully through a new ROM module, and we are back to rebooting and loading modules again...
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Old 06 January 2019, 23:40   #419
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Originally Posted by malko View Post
Found this but it's not free


Following this link from another post, I can see that there are a lot of documents to read and for all those I clicked on, I was asked to register (with a payment plan). Unless another solution to access the documents free of charge (as unlike a lawyer, I don't get paid for it ), think I will wait for official news.
I think it's referring to this: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxlY...0M2I4MzQ1/edit

The language is rather confusing and we probably haven't a hope of properly understanding it without a law degree...
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Old 06 January 2019, 23:56   #420
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E.g. take the old shell and add it via LoadModule.
Right, which is what I do. Now that Hyperion, with Thor's blessing, is in total ownership, I doubt there will be more aminet updates though. So we have yet another incarnation of the shell to worry about in scripts.

Quote:
Furthermore the new shell does respect most failats - not all, obviously.
Really, I have not seen it respect any failar level yet - can you provide details? How high must one go to make it abort?
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