NEC Multisync 2A Amiga 15Khz compatible?

[Amiga1992]

I'm always confused as to which "multisync" monitors work with native Amiga resolutions and which don't.

Normally, NECs that do, are described in spec sheets as 31Khz monitors and no mention of 15Khz anywhere.

So, does anybody know if the NEC Multisync 2A works with 15Khz displays?

[emufan]

marketing thing i guess - iirc the Multisync 3D was the perfect amiga monitor by nec.
a lists of monitors:

Active Band- Physical
Display DP Width Hsync Vsync Max Res
Manufacturer Model (mm) Mhz) (KHz) (Hz) (pixels)
NEC Multisync 2A 240 x 180 .31 38 31.5-35 56,60,70 774 x 581

[mark_k]

It seems the MultiSync 2A can only scan at 31.5kHz and 35.2kHz. German PDF user manual

[Nobby_UK]

The Manual for my NEC MULTISYNC 1970NXp
also says Horizontal Frequency =31.5 to 81.1
but it works with my Amiga
(but vertical lines can sometimes be seen)

From Amiga.org:
"amigadave: 05-19-2008, 11:28 AM
I know that the NEC2a and NEC3D are not on your list of monitors you have available, but the link provided that shows the specifications of each NEC monitor is not accurate for those two monitors, and perhaps for others as well. Both the 2a and 3d NEC monitors CAN display all Amiga resolutions up to 800x600 as they have a 15kHz to 31kHz, or above display capability. I own both monitors and have used them in the past and present on all my Amigas. I think they are actually a sort of dual sync monitor instead of a true multisync, but they are great for single monitor solutions for Amigas with graphic cards that pass through native 15kHz screens, but do not have a scan doubler, as the monitor will just switch automatically and show those screens and switch right back to your 31kHz and above graphic card screen. Only drawback is that their screen size is too small for todays expectations.

So, the purpose of my long messeage is, the specs for other NEC monitors on that link may also be incorrect by not showing that the monitor will sync down to 15kHz. Look for another location with more precise specs before you give up on a particular monitor in your list.

Hope this helped."

[Amiga1992]

Yeah this is my main concern, all specs say 31 and up and don't mention 15Khz yet some monitors do support it. I was hoping someone had one of this particular model and is using it with Amiga native modes.

I found online someone mentioning them using one of these but I need some confirmation. I don't want to go really far and plonk money on something that might not work at all :P

[idrougge]

The Multisync II (Roman numerals) is 15 kHz, but the 2A is, as far as I was warned many years ago, not. Our Atari friends seem to agree.

[TroyWilkins]

Originally Posted by idrougge

The Multisync II (Roman numerals) is 15 kHz

I can confirm this, I used to use a NEC Multisync II with my A4000/040 back in the late 90s, and it worked quite well for both 15kHz and VGA style modes. It wasn't the best monitor I've ever used, but being able to use it for standard 15kHz as well as flicker-free 640x480 was nice.

[zipper]

Confirmed:
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://...ide-german.pdf

[zipper]

And a similar manual for IIA tells it just does 31 kHz.

[Amiga1992]

Excellent information guys, that's exactly what I needed. I'll keep looking, thanks!

Basically then, if the monitor displays CGA screens, can we assume it does 15Khz? And would 15.82, as shown on the II spec sheet, bee good enough for an Amiga or is that too unstable?

[demolition]

Originally Posted by zipper

Confirmed:
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://...ide-german.pdf

The specs only states what they guarantee to support. Often a product will support more than what is stated and this is how it is with LCD monitors and 16kHz signals. AFAIK no VGA LCD monitors specify anything lower than 31kHz since that is what they have to support to obey the VGA spec, although several models will show a picture regardless when you present them with a 16kHz signal.

Originally Posted by Akira

Basically then, if the monitor displays CGA screens, can we assume it does 15Khz? And would 15.82, as shown on the II spec sheet, bee good enough for an Amiga or is that too unstable?

Actually, the horizontal frequency is 15.625 kHz so it is closer to 16 kHz than 15.. I am not sure whether CGA support would guarantee success, but frequency-wise it should be good enough.

[idrougge]

The Multisync II is an Amiga classic and will work without any issues apart from its age.

[zipper]

Originally Posted by demolition

The specs only states what they guarantee to support. Often a product will support more than what is stated and this is how it is with LCD monitors and 16kHz signals. AFAIK no VGA LCD monitors specify anything lower than 31kHz since that is what they have to support to obey the VGA spec, although several models will show a picture regardless when you present them with a 16kHz signal.

Some BenQ models did spec from 24 kHz up - like mine; Naturally I tried 15kHz but no go... Refresh was interesting, too: 44 to 51 Hz; 59 to 61 Hz and 72 to 75 Hz (tested).

[Pat the Cat]

NEC multisync usually good, but not always. They made some clunkers like everybody else. Generally, most multicyncs with 9 pins are good. 15 pins is the iffy territory, but some of them are good. There are exceptions to that.

Can be an issue getting the cable right, some are a bit weird, IIRC. They kind of multisync but need the pins just right on the connector to nail it. I think you had to blob the two syncs together, because they EXPECTED two syncs and sulked if you didn't do that.

The snag is the term "Multisync", and yep, some of them need a flicker fixer. The snag with the issue, I think, goes back to the days when a lot of developers had A3000s with built in flicker fixers and didn't give a toss about it. Their machines could use any monitor. If yours couldn't, you didn't have the right machine. It was somebody else's problem.

There were plenty of other brands of multisync that were pretty good, but I think the name of the game now is flatscreen as far as displays go. Or projector, you can do pretty funky stuff with them. They getting so SMALL now... 4 inch cubes with internal battery. £300 quid.

[Pat the Cat]

Originally Posted by mark_k

It seems the MultiSync 2A can only scan at 31.5kHz and 35.2kHz. German PDF user manual

Figures quoted are usually maximum, not minimum, with that era of monitor. They are not reliable as a measure of "compatible with all Amiga modes).

Having said that, any 15 pin display device is at least PARTLY Amiga compatible, so it's not really a case of "won't work with any possible Amiga screen modes", just "can't play most games". Same is true of other kit that adapts via 15 pin and native Amiga 23 pin.

You want to play games, go phono video connection and projector. You can only do that in a darkened room, really. Or arcade or similar.

CRTs are a rejected donation most places, quite frankly. Safe recycle only.

[zipper]

In the Nec 2 manual is clearly stated 15 kHz, 31 kHz and 35 kHz; 2A manual just 31 and 35 kHz, that's the difference between them.

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by Pat the Cat

You want to play games, go phono video connection and projector. You can only do that in a darkened room, really. Or arcade or similar.

I strongly disagree, a lot of video modes and effects are meant to be displayed on a CRT display, and a "phono video connection" (I assume you mean Composite) is a disgusting thing to use. I would use nothing but RGB on all my machines.

Even though I could connect via RGB to an LCD or projector, it just doesn't look the same and in cases it's all broken because the computer makes use and abuse of qualities exclusive of raster beam CRT displays(look at Virtual Karting AGA, or the "goa brugbilder" demo on C64).

And projectors needing a dark room to display are yet another problem.

Anyway going OT here, so back on:
It seems to be the case that the 2A is NOT Amiga native mode compatible, and that's it, while the II is regarded as an Amiga-friendly monitor.

[Pat the Cat]

<shrug> If the display doesn't meet what you need it for, OK. Nothing wrong with having two possible displays. And you need convertors in the way to hook some kit up.

Sometimes you got a host of multiple conversion routes into the same display device. Monitors SUCK in some respects, but if you like your CRTs old school, OK. Just opinion. And things like running costs. Projector maintanance is poorer than monitors, phono isn't good for higher resolutions.

[Amiga1992]

I am not stating opinion, people coded certain visual things utilizing the anomalies and advantages of raster beam displays. They will not show correctly in any other type of display. It's a fact.

And with an old school CRT monitor, there is no kind of conversion. I don't know why you are bringing any such things up.

[Pat the Cat]

People also coded things in raster displays that are not visible on phono connector devices, but are visible on 15 pin multisyncs.

It cuts both ways. Sometimes the glitches and hacks are outside of the visible raster area, but become ugly blemishes on a monitor.