Final Fight Speculation - Page 6

seko · 11 June 2018, 19:25

I thank everyone for their thoughtfulness.There may be other issues to talk about.

Not only is it an arcade game, but the controls for the player are insufficient. It is ok for four directions. In some games one or two buttons may be insufficient. Yes, there are cd32 controls. But not everyone has a problem. But I think you can solve it.

Maybe the Sega megadrive joypad can be adapted to amiga.we can drive it directly. Or it can be driven by a microcontroller. It's a joypad that everyone can find very easily.

I am dealing with design to actively use the 4 buttons on the amiga with three buttons and start on the megadrive joypad in a project I am working on. I want to do is drive the megadrive joypad with amiga directly. I do not want to go into too much technical stuff. The megadrive joypad can use the three-button and mode amiga, including the start button.

The following video 3 buttons joypad send microcontroller signals. microcontroller information from amiga joyport conversion test was done.

If I succeed, I will be able to play on amiga my arcade game sega joypad with 4 buttons.

[ Show youtube player ]

mcgeezer · 11 June 2018, 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandruzzo

To finish projects?

Just so we are clear. This would be a crowd fund project to pay an amiga developer to build a game, right?

Shatterhand · 11 June 2018, 21:16

The 1 button controller limitation is really annoying. Having 6 or even just 3 buttons would be great, though we can work well with 2 most of the time. It's really a shame Commodore didn't sell the Amiga supporting its 2 buttons since day one.

Said that, with some imagination, all command inputs from Final Fight could be easily adapted to 1 button and still keep the game very playable. Golden Axe had a more complex set of moves and they did it pretty well.

And of course, adding a 2 button option there's no reason to make it 100% perfect

Tigerskunk · 11 June 2018, 22:12

We really need to get past this one button controller thing.

Shatterhand · 11 June 2018, 22:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steril707

We really need to get past this one button controller thing.

Any adapter means people will have to buy/build the adapter, not an option IMO.

I'd love to say every new game should *require* 2 buttons, but I see lots of people still using 1 button controllers on Amiga.

The 2 games I made for Amiga so far use only 1 button because... there was no need for another button. (Roadtrip could use button 2 for brakes but.. nah, pulling left was enough). But I pretend to *always* support 2 buttons if the game benefits from it, while still giving some option for people still using old Competition Pro or ZipStick controllers

seko · 18 June 2018, 18:12

I succeeded.No electronic circuit or microcontroller.
Megadrive joypad works on direct Amiga.you must to do right
matchs pins for amiga and sega ports.you use four buttons.
but need driver program.I made it for the test.

[ Show youtube player ]

Pins connections

frank_b · 18 June 2018, 19:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by seko

I succeeded.No electronic circuit or microcontroller.
Megadrive joypad works on direct Amiga.you must to do right
matchs pins for amiga and sega ports.you use four buttons.
but need driver program.I made it for the test.

[ Show youtube player ]

Pins connections

That would solve the scarcity of CD32 controllers quite nicely!

Retro1234 · 18 June 2018, 19:42

Flashback and Hired Guns can work with 3 button rewired pad.

Shatterhand · 18 June 2018, 21:25

This is great, but I think people had already done that before. Thing is, you'd have to program specifically for the "adapter", and I don't think many people would bother to build such an adapter (even if its an obvious simple one)

But staying on topic... Final Fight on arcades had just 2 buttons. It's enough.

Brick Nash · 21 June 2018, 11:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retro1234

Yes it might be fake he doesn't say how he got around the Amos Bob clipping also as far as I know you can't display graphics behind tiles in Amos like on the train level a few things unless he explains I think it might be fake.

Why anyone would go through all the effort to make a fake video ?!?

I saw those videos a while back and I'm no expert but having tried to attempt Double Dragon in Amos (which I need to get back to) I can say that recreating the gameplay mechanics of these sort of games isn't hard at all using Amos Basic.

I don't know about the Bob clipping though, that's too advanced for me, but assuming it's not a Bob then maybe it's some tile layering parallax trick using icons or something. I think you can make a transparent colour in icons with "Make Icon mask" and do some clever pasting tricks to make it seem like a separate set of icons are moving across the view area of the screen and disappearing behind the main background tiles when in reality it's just not getting pasted when outside of the transparent colour zone of the windows. Alternatively, maybe it's the actual background tiles being pasted over the moving ones? I'm just speculating of course and there's a 99% chance I'm talking crap, but as an Amos user it's fascinating to try and theorise.

As for the original 1991 Amiga game, I think if at least the attack sequences had been kept in and the enemy placement was a bit closer to the arcade game then it would be more playable. To me it felt more like a progress report of an unfinished project, like something you'd send to your boss which is half finished so that they could get an idea of how things were going. It was almost like someone just took that half finished version, made sure there were no bugs to make it crash, and then released it. To be fair it's really not a bad foundation for a beat 'em up game, but there's just nothing to the gameplay in terms of moves.

vulture · 29 June 2018, 23:20

So, I was looking at streets of rage 3 the other day and unless I've missed something, there are no more than 7 sprites on screen at any time (including p1 and p2) and when all 7 are there, the screen remains static and there's not much parallax going on either during other sections of the game. Sprite size is about the same size as Double Dragon 3. So, I really think that if someone would design a beat 'em up around amiga's weaknesses and playing up to its strengths we might as well get a beater that's very similar to SoR 3. I feel that fitting all those animation frames into RAM along with everything else would be a bigger challenge rather than actually managing to create an engine which could handle those bobs going. Again, not an Amiga coder, I'm just going by what I've observed here and mostly speculating.

mcgeezer · 12 July 2018, 19:22

I had some time tonight to have a look at the Double Dragon arcade assets and i've managed to get all of the tiles and map built in roughly in Tiled.

There is a nice colour blend across the palette so if someone can provide the player sprites I can incorporate those and see how the game will look in 32 colour mode. With a bit of work I could probably get it looking arcade perfect ( probably even better if I make use of the copper)

I'm not a great fan of beat em'ups, it's not that i dislink them, it's just I prefer other game types. That said is there really an appetite to have [insert your favourite beat em up] in the Amiga community? If I was going to port one it would be Double Dragon because as a kid that's the one I liked.

Alpine9000 already coded Else we get mad.... so is the appetite really there for DD? Was the original port really that shite?

If the answer is yes then I'll go further.

You can take a look at the resulting IFF I am working with at the link below...

http://109.228.4.199/double_gragon_map_result.iff

dlfrsilver · 12 July 2018, 22:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgeezer

I had some time tonight to have a look at the Double Dragon arcade assets and i've managed to get all of the tiles and map built in roughly in Tiled.

There is a nice colour blend across the palette so if someone can provide the player sprites I can incorporate those and see how the game will look in 32 colour mode. With a bit of work I could probably get it looking arcade perfect ( probably even better if I make use of the copper)

I'm not a great fan of beat em'ups, it's not that i dislink them, it's just I prefer other game types. That said is there really an appetite to have [insert your favourite beat em up] in the Amiga community? If I was going to port one it would be Double Dragon because as a kid that's the one I liked.

Alpine9000 already coded Else we get mad.... so is the appetite really there for DD? Was the original port really that shite?

If the answer is yes then I'll go further.

You can take a look at the resulting IFF I am working with at the link below...

http://109.228.4.199/double_gragon_map_result.iff

I have already extracted the level tiles from the coin-op with all the good palettes.

Files are available here on EAB lol !

DamienD · 12 July 2018, 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

Files are available here on EAB lol !

How's mcgeezer supposed to know that; he only joined less than a year ago?

Not something I'd ever imagine to search for on the EAB File Server i.e. <arcade; insert game> graphics rips.

TurboCrash · 12 July 2018, 22:36

You're asking on an amiga board if they want a brand new spanking game in a genre which was originally underserved (inspite Aplin's good effort) in the all mighty amiga? Is rain wet?

dlfrsilver · 12 July 2018, 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamienD

How's mcgeezer supposed to know that; he only joined less than a year ago?

Not something I'd ever imagine to search for on the EAB File Server i.e. <arcade; insert game> graphics rips.

ah i know :/

here : http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=...7&postcount=10

mcgeezer · 12 July 2018, 22:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

I have already extracted the level tiles from the coin-op with all the good palettes.

Files are available here on EAB lol !

They are useless without the tilemaps. Uness you’re going to tell me that you have those too?

dlfrsilver · 12 July 2018, 22:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgeezer

They are useless without the tilemaps. Uness you’re going to tell me that you have those too?

Ah i see what you mean. I don't have them.

If your solution allows to get the tilemaps easily, feel free.....

mcgeezer · 12 July 2018, 22:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by TurboCrash

You're asking on an amiga board if they want a brand new spanking game in a genre which was originally underserved (inspite Aplin's good effort) in the all mighty amiga? Is rain wet?

No, i’m asking if we want a port of a game that i guess was poorly done bitd.
Compared to other games is this the one the Amiga community really wants over other games that were neglected.

mcgeezer · 12 July 2018, 22:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

Ah i see what you mean. I don't have them.

If your solution allows to get the tilemaps easily, feel free.....

Fine, its the sprites i need so if you have those then it will save me lots of time?

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11 June 2018, 19:25	#101
seko Registered User Join Date: Jun 2018 Location: istanbul * turkey Posts: 93	I thank everyone for their thoughtfulness.There may be other issues to talk about. Not only is it an arcade game, but the controls for the player are insufficient. It is ok for four directions. In some games one or two buttons may be insufficient. Yes, there are cd32 controls. But not everyone has a problem. But I think you can solve it. Maybe the Sega megadrive joypad can be adapted to amiga.we can drive it directly. Or it can be driven by a microcontroller. It's a joypad that everyone can find very easily. I am dealing with design to actively use the 4 buttons on the amiga with three buttons and start on the megadrive joypad in a project I am working on. I want to do is drive the megadrive joypad with amiga directly. I do not want to go into too much technical stuff. The megadrive joypad can use the three-button and mode amiga, including the start button. The following video 3 buttons joypad send microcontroller signals. microcontroller information from amiga joyport conversion test was done. If I succeed, I will be able to play on amiga my arcade game sega joypad with 4 buttons. [ Show youtube player ]

11 June 2018, 21:16	#103
Shatterhand Warhasneverbeensomuchfun Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Rio de Janeiro / Brazil Age: 41 Posts: 3,450	The 1 button controller limitation is really annoying. Having 6 or even just 3 buttons would be great, though we can work well with 2 most of the time. It's really a shame Commodore didn't sell the Amiga supporting its 2 buttons since day one. Said that, with some imagination, all command inputs from Final Fight could be easily adapted to 1 button and still keep the game very playable. Golden Axe had a more complex set of moves and they did it pretty well. And of course, adding a 2 button option there's no reason to make it 100% perfect

11 June 2018, 22:12	#104
Tigerskunk Inviyya Dude! Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Amiga Island Posts: 2,770	We really need to get past this one button controller thing.

18 June 2018, 18:12	#106
seko Registered User Join Date: Jun 2018 Location: istanbul * turkey Posts: 93	I succeeded.No electronic circuit or microcontroller. Megadrive joypad works on direct Amiga.you must to do right matchs pins for amiga and sega ports.you use four buttons. but need driver program.I made it for the test. [ Show youtube player ] Pins connections

18 June 2018, 19:42	#108
Retro1234 Phone Homer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: 5150 Posts: 5,773	Flashback and Hired Guns can work with 3 button rewired pad.

18 June 2018, 21:25	#109
Shatterhand Warhasneverbeensomuchfun Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Rio de Janeiro / Brazil Age: 41 Posts: 3,450	This is great, but I think people had already done that before. Thing is, you'd have to program specifically for the "adapter", and I don't think many people would bother to build such an adapter (even if its an obvious simple one) But staying on topic... Final Fight on arcades had just 2 buttons. It's enough.

29 June 2018, 23:20	#111
vulture Registered User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Athens , Greece Posts: 1,840	So, I was looking at streets of rage 3 the other day and unless I've missed something, there are no more than 7 sprites on screen at any time (including p1 and p2) and when all 7 are there, the screen remains static and there's not much parallax going on either during other sections of the game. Sprite size is about the same size as Double Dragon 3. So, I really think that if someone would design a beat 'em up around amiga's weaknesses and playing up to its strengths we might as well get a beater that's very similar to SoR 3. I feel that fitting all those animation frames into RAM along with everything else would be a bigger challenge rather than actually managing to create an engine which could handle those bobs going. Again, not an Amiga coder, I'm just going by what I've observed here and mostly speculating.

12 July 2018, 19:22	#112
mcgeezer Registered User Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: Sunderland, England Posts: 2,702	I had some time tonight to have a look at the Double Dragon arcade assets and i've managed to get all of the tiles and map built in roughly in Tiled. There is a nice colour blend across the palette so if someone can provide the player sprites I can incorporate those and see how the game will look in 32 colour mode. With a bit of work I could probably get it looking arcade perfect ( probably even better if I make use of the copper) I'm not a great fan of beat em'ups, it's not that i dislink them, it's just I prefer other game types. That said is there really an appetite to have [insert your favourite beat em up] in the Amiga community? If I was going to port one it would be Double Dragon because as a kid that's the one I liked. Alpine9000 already coded Else we get mad.... so is the appetite really there for DD? Was the original port really that shite? If the answer is yes then I'll go further. You can take a look at the resulting IFF I am working with at the link below... http://109.228.4.199/double_gragon_map_result.iff

12 July 2018, 22:36	#115
TurboCrash Registered User Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Lisbon/Portugal Posts: 51	You're asking on an amiga board if they want a brand new spanking game in a genre which was originally underserved (inspite Aplin's good effort) in the all mighty amiga? Is rain wet?

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