C128 better than Atari 520 ST?

[Supamax]

Originally Posted by Flash951

C64 Armalyte ...
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Atari ST
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Read the comments to this video:
"How does this not only LOOK worse on the ST, it's even got worse music than the c64 version?"

You keep considering exceptions...
Armalyte is beautifully programmed on the C64 and badly programmed on the ST.
You can't compare a C64 masterpiece with a badly written ST version .
It's programmers' fault, not machines'.
Visually, though, I would not say that the C64 version is better.
Atari ST: bad playability, good graphics (320x200)
C64: top playability, worse graphics (160x200)

Following your example, there are surely ST masterpieces which have bad C64 versions/ports etc.

[PeterJ]

Originally Posted by Flash951

C64 Armalyte ...
[ Show youtube player ]

Atari ST
[ Show youtube player ]

Read the comments to this video:
"How does this not only LOOK worse on the ST, it's even got worse music than the c64 version?"

the c64 look awesome and i think if they had use similar graphic on the ST
the game would have been as cool.

but I think that the ST version look like the Amiga version, just with reduce color palette.
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the graphic it is just more dull and not so SIFI as the C64 version

if people know what to do, then the C64 sound chip (SID) will win every time, over the ST sound chip (YM2149) nothing new in this

the SID is probable the most advance sound chip ever to be put in to a home computer(also the reason why it is so hard to 100% emulate even today), where the YM2149 was probably one of the most simple (reason to why it is so s..t easy to emulate) .

and you can not use anything where they are using a SuperCPU. the SuperCPU first came in 1996 and allow the c64 to run 20MHZ, it would be the same if we overclock the ST to 80Mhz.

Originally Posted by Photon

Regarding Elite:
Elite for C64 and C128 would have been a port from BBC, while the 16-bit port would have been a port from ST to Amiga. In other words, if the inference is that filled vectors are impossible on C64, it's obviously untrue. And with the quite simple visuals of Elite, if someone made a filled vector version on C64, it wouldn't be hard to make it run similarly to ST. Elite is lovely to play but hardly showcases what the ST or Amiga can do

edit oh i forgot.
if you take the two elite videos you can clearly see that the Atari is faster even with filled vector,
so the c64 is struggling with the 3D-math.
and as i remember, was David Braben not more or less in over all the 8bit version to ensure that they run good,
so if it is a port, then is a port done by the game creator him self, and I also sense to remember that the MSX version was postponed for a long time, because David was not satisfied. (but that is maybe not quite true, but that is how i remember it)

I know that it is a crappy game but it is filled vector

C64
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Atari ST
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[Flash951]

The C64 version look really good when using a crt 15khz display, as ment for. Grabbing from an emulator or using LCD makes the graphics looks bad and blocky, the clever dithering of colors is not working. The same goes for arcade games. The artists had crt in mind. That's why I've setup an site for screenshots photographed from crt monitors. Check out: www.crtscreenshots.com

No one daubt the fact that an ST is much better at 3d vector graphics than the c64, using more powerful 16/32 bit 68k. St also has better graphics and a big color palette. We all agree.

[PeterJ]

you have the same problem on the ST regarding dithering, LCD screens are way to sharps, i know that the new beta of STeem in fullscreen mode (direct 3d) blur the output so it look like a crt picture.

here is a game that run a lot better on the C64 then on the ST, (it could have been coded to run much better on the ST than it did, a real shame)

C64
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Atari ST
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before some said, there in a new STE version that run better, i know but it is not the STE we are talking about

[frank_b]

Originally Posted by Photon

Well, that's not the comparison. The comparison is between C128 and ST. Silly as the thread is, it helps if the arguments revolve around the original platforms.

The blitter is available on most ST models as an upgrade. I have two STFM models with blitters fitted. It's standard on the Mega ST. There is at least one STe game out there which uses the blitter for everything including scrolling the screen. It's called Roger and it runs at 50 hz too. [ Show youtube player ]

[Flash951]

In the 520 ST version of Giana Sisters, there is no scrolling at all, they just gave it up and turned it off?

[frank_b]

The ste remix scrolls and also runs at 50 hz

[Flash951]

Originally Posted by frank_b

The ste remix scrolls and also runs at 50 hz

This thread is about the 1985 computer 520 ST and the 1985 computer C128.

[frank_b]

Right well enjoy. I've written code on the 6502 and the 68k. They are not comparable. It is a silly comparison

[Flash951]

This is not a CPU comparison.

[asm1]

Just because they are both from 1985, doesnt make the comparison a fair or sensible one. I'm intrigued, why ARE you comparing them? are you trying to say an 8 bit computer is better than a 16 bit one? or are you just trying to say the ST is S**T.? Having read your other post on the Atari forum, you do not seem to have much love for the ST

My issue with this thread is that feels like a blatant "Commodore is better.... just BECAUSE!!!" troll. I get that you love C=, but why are you so desperate for validation/endorsement? Most of us here have more than one retro system, from others than commodore, and most of us accept that some machines do things differently/better than others.

There is a similar thread on the Atari forums, for which the OP got banned and then complaiined about it on an Amiga FB page. It really was quite painful to read, and this is going the same way.

Mods I can link if you like.

Fanboyism is sooo 1992... lol.

My Acorn Archimedes pwns all, purely and simply because the decendents of the ARM chip in it are in pretty much every modern smartphone... ARM used to stand for Acorn Risc Machine y'know... ooo look I r fanboy. Not.

Nothing wrong with having a favourite......... but this is a weird thread.

[TCD]

Granted this is an Amiga forum and the 'comparision' is quite OT to begin with, the persistence of the OP is indeed... odd. Guess the main 'arguments' have been delivered and it's time to close this thread.