Amiga Vs ST

[lordofchaos]

Ok another Atari ST V Amiga video, Turrican II.

[ Show youtube player ]

[laffer]

Originally Posted by lordofchaos

Ok another Atari ST V Amiga video, Turrican II.

[ Show youtube player ]

Very cool! You're really fast at making these!

[s2325]

Yes, thanks, I never noticed before changes at the bottom of screen.

[lordofchaos]

Thanks, your very welcome. It's make a pleasant change of pace for me to make these kind of videos, compared to my other stuff these are just so much less stressful

[lilalurl]

Originally Posted by s2325

Yes, thanks, I never noticed before changes at the bottom of screen.

Neither did I.

I wonder if the ST version uses only a panel at the bottom (compared to the Amiga which uses partially a HUD display, for the score and lives number) for technical reasons, such as the inability to use "transparency" (not sure if that is the correct word here) without a major performance impact.


lordofchaos, if you have time, I'd be interested to know how you make your videos. Besides recording two seperate gameplay videos. Especially which software you use to put two videos side by side with some text displayed below.

[mc6809e]

Originally Posted by lilalurl

I wonder if the ST version uses only a panel at the bottom (compared to the Amiga which uses partially a HUD display, for the score and lives number) for technical reasons, such as the inability to use "transparency" (not sure if that is the correct word here) without a major performance impact.

That's part of it. Also notice how much of the scrollable area is missing in the ST version. The large bar at the bottom means fewer lines to scroll. There's also a large black area at the top of the screen for the same reason.

[lordofchaos]

Originally Posted by lilalurl

lordofchaos, if you have time, I'd be interested to know how you make your videos. Besides recording two seperate gameplay videos. Especially which software you use to put two videos side by side with some text displayed below.

No problem lilalurl. After I've recorded the gameplay videos I import them into Sony Vegas Pro, from there I add the videos as separate layers. (Just incase your not familiar with Video layers, anything you have on the top layer will always take priority over the one beneath it, this way you can just keep overlaying effects/video/etc).

Once I have the layers prepared I manually scale the videos to size (I need to do this because of the way WinUAE and Saint output the video format).

After that I position the videos on both sides. The final couple of layers consist of the Text overlay at the bottom and the Gradient fill. For the video capture codec I use the TechSmith Capture Codec, it usually yields decent results but I`m sure there's better out there. I hope this helps with your question, I might upload a tutorial if I get the time.

[lilalurl]

Thanks lordofchaos.

I am not familiar with video layers, but I know a bit about layers in painting programs (don't judge my graphic skills based only on the "It's ... guess the handdrawn...." threads in the competition section ). I guess the idea is the same.

It must be quite useful and make many operations easier.
For a long time I have been wanting to mess a bit with video editing. This will give me a good opportunity.

A tutorial would be welcome but I guess your priority should be to make more such videos


I have a question about the audio. In the video, you swap from one machine audio to the other.Is it related to the top layer?

In other words, you tell the software that for Time X to Time Y that the Amiga video is the top layer and (by default or based on an option) it mute all audio that is not from the top layer. Am I correct?

Originally Posted by mc6809e

That's part of it. Also notice how much of the scrollable area is missing in the ST version. The large bar at the bottom means fewer lines to scroll. There's also a large black area at the top of the screen for the same reason.

Actually, I didn't pay attention the black area at the top (I guess I considered it was just a video size issue). But now checking the video again it is obvious when compared to the intro parts on which both Amiga and ST screen have the same size.

[lordofchaos]

Originally Posted by lilalurl

I have a question about the audio. In the video, you swap from one machine audio to the other.Is it related to the top layer?

In other words, you tell the software that for Time X to Time Y that the Amiga video is the top layer and (by default or based on an option) it mute all audio that is not from the top layer. Am I correct?

It's actually not as complicated as that, with the audio switching I split the video up into chunks and just edit the segments manually choosing when to remove the audio from the sources.

The "Mute" overlay is a separate overlay which I remove or add when needed. Your right about the art package layers, they work on the same principle as video layers.

The beauty of Vegas or similar packages is the amount of conditions you can add to the layers or segments, it's like coding but much more visually oriented.

[Stefan Lindberg]

Many ST games have smaller play area compared to the Amiga versions just to have fairly fast gameplay... but this also made the games more difficult as the level design was made for bigger visible play area, for example in X-Out you must have faster reactiontime as the enemies show up closer to the player and in James Pond 2: Robocod you can many times not even see if there is any platforms to jump to or if there is any lethal below you if you jump down

[lilalurl]

Thanks again lordofchaos, especially for the screenshot. It seems quite "easy" (I guess when you know the interface and how things work and are called) to use. I really need to try when I manage to get a large chunk of free time (I guess during the winter holidays).

Originally Posted by Stefan Lindberg

but this also made the games more difficult as the level design was made for bigger visible play area,

So, basically, you are saying that people who do longplays or claim to have finish many games on the Amiga are n00bs compared to those who did the same on Atari ST?

[Stefan Lindberg]

Originally Posted by lilalurl

So, basically, you are saying that people who do longplays or claim to have finish many games on the Amiga are n00bs compared to those who did the same on Atari ST?

No, i am just saying some ST games are a bit more difficult than the Amiga versions... try some for yourself and see
Longplayers usually cheat with emulator save states.

I recently played Menace on my ST and i had no idea how to win against the first boss so i checked the Amiga longplay and it turned out the wider gameplay area made it easier... or should i say possible at all as i still can't figure out how to finish the boss in the ST version without picking up the sheild power up or such... it must be possible without that power up.. or?
On the other hand so does the Amiga version have more enemies in the levels (at least first level that i checked) because the wider gameplay area can show more enemies, this means Menace for the ST actually was a bit re-designed but unfortunatly not the boss design

[pandy71]

Originally Posted by lilalurl

lordofchaos, if you have time, I'd be interested to know how you make your videos. Besides recording two seperate gameplay videos. Especially which software you use to put two videos side by side with some text displayed below.

Avisynth is OK (i mean as a free alternative to commercial tools).

to combine videos Overlay function can be used (but StackHorizontal will work too).

http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/2...s-Side-by-Side

[lordofchaos]

Time for another Amiga V Atari ST video, Armour Geddon.

[ Show youtube player ]

[dlfrsilver]

lordofchaos, one excellent thing on your videos is that they show the loading speed !

And now we can prove that the loading of the games if faster on the amiga, a thing which the guys on ST said 'oh goood the agony of the loading time on amiga compared to the ST'. Pure bullshit

[lordofchaos]

Thanks Mr Silver Well I must confess, the games shown on the comparison videos have been edited in regards to the disk loading, the reason for this is to keep a certain level of sync between the two. Also some of the videos are using cracked versions of the games which may or may not be slower/faster loading? Although ST guys that say it's agony waiting for Amiga to load are exaggerating for sure. For the most part there's not that much in it. Even if the Amiga version takes longer we usually get much better sound and gfx for our patience.

[pandy71]

Isn't Atari use 60Hz VSync where Amiga (usually) 50Hz VSync? Perhaps i'm wrong but this can impact perceived framerate and also comparison between Amiga and Atari.

btw
YT 30fps fixed video rate also didn't help in objective comparison.

[Galder]

I remember from the old times that ST was specialized in music and Amiga in graphics. Amiga had the upper hand in games and the only "threat" back then was the upcoming Archimedes that also failed.

[lordofchaos]

Originally Posted by pandy71

Isn't Atari use 60Hz VSync where Amiga (usually) 50Hz VSync? Perhaps i'm wrong but this can impact perceived framerate and also comparison between Amiga and Atari.

btw
YT 30fps fixed video rate also didn't help in objective comparison.

No, the Atari ST is not natively 60Hz, at least not in Europe so this would no real impact. Also depending on the type of game the YT cap of 30fps may not affect it, for example if it's a 3d game that runs below 30fps (which most amiga/Atari games do), smooth scrolling platformers and shooters may be different thought. I've kept everything locked to 30fps, it's a real shame youtube doesn't support 50/60 fps..

[dlfrsilver]

anyway almost no atari ST have a refresh of 50fps. Mostly the amiga.