31 July 2015, 11:37 | #221 | |
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Kipper2k: some videos on youtube of The Full Apollo Core, demonstrating actual compatibility with OSes (OS3.9, maybe MacOS via Fusion or Shapeshifter) and productivity software (especially 040 and 060 optimized), would be excellent.
Quote:
http://history.stackexchange.com/que...e-moon-landing Regarding the Apollo mission that is topic of this thread, the story is different. Last edited by TCD; 31 July 2015 at 15:22. Reason: Back-to-back posts merged. |
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31 July 2015, 12:00 | #222 |
son of 68k
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31 July 2015, 12:37 | #223 |
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I'm not saying he's lying, just that "proof" is in showing running working software.
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31 July 2015, 14:02 | #224 |
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19 August 2015, 14:12 | #225 |
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Are there any updates on these boards (availability and specs)? I am very excited about this project and really hope to have an end product under the Christmas tree to cheer up my A500.
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19 August 2015, 18:19 | #226 |
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@happymondays Its been real quiet for a week or so when the apollo-core.com forum was wiped. Not seen any recent news from Majsta either.
Hopefully theres nothing to worry about and they are simply experiencing a texhnical glitch with their web servers. But the last news we got was that Majsta was about to do another resesign to accomodate larger RAM. |
19 August 2015, 20:15 | #227 |
son of 68k
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Technical glitch with the web server ? I don't think so. It's not the first time the whole forum gets deleted.
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19 August 2015, 21:44 | #228 |
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19 August 2015, 23:57 | #229 |
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20 August 2015, 00:56 | #230 |
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Waiting 20 years for such card so i can wait another year...
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20 August 2015, 01:02 | #231 |
Jackie Chan
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Ive never heard of the apollo forum being deleted before.
I wonder if they infringed upon someones patents. The apollo core is an evolution of the old motorola chipset right? |
20 August 2015, 01:36 | #232 |
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All the posts on the apollo forum were wiped once before it was opened to the public. Someone might have said it was a "restart" corresponding to a new direction with the core or it could have had something to do with the content of more recent threads at the time. Meynaf wasn't the only one who considered the wipe annoying as it had useful technical information (much as the Natami forum does). Maybe if you had known some of the insiders involved with the Natami project then you would understand the "problem". Meynaf and I are strongly opinionated but we are pretty easy going team players. There are reasons why we are not actively involved with the apollo project anymore.
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20 August 2015, 11:23 | #233 |
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More drama coming from some of the people involved with the old Natami project? Colour me surprised
I hope they resume the work on it, though. |
20 August 2015, 11:33 | #234 | |
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Quote:
It may be that for this implementation the bottlenecks were elsewhere and/or that some other feature made this easier to implement. But MOVEP is still a problem instruction in a general implementation. |
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20 August 2015, 13:40 | #235 | |
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I've written "not as high as some said", not "not high at all". A problem instruction, yes, but up to what point ? Many instructions can be problematic. This is life. For example MOVEM is a magnitude more difficult than MOVEP. |
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20 August 2015, 16:14 | #236 |
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In my processor design MOVEM was easier to support than MOVEP. Now that is a dead project, not a complete 68k processor and optimized for high clock speeds (for a FPGA that is) so it may not have been representative. Still:
MOVEM is only complicated in that it uses a special format to indicate registers to store/load. Otherwise it consists of straight stores/loads using increment or decrement mode. This is handled with a sequencer in parallel with the decoder. MOVEP in comparison require splitting/concatenation of register data, something not used elsewhere in the design. This means either one have to complicate the cache access path or use µops+a temporal register to handle that. It also stores/loads bytes while increasing the address by two so this requires special handling. In short MOVEP touches more critical spots than MOVEM. For a speed demon design this can be a huge problem. |
20 August 2015, 20:18 | #237 |
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They are both tricky to implement but the most important difference is how often they will be used. MOVEM needs to be as fast as possible because it would remain very important for any future 68k CPU. MOVEP is an ancient kludge which has very limited modern usefulness and can be slow. It is nice that Gunnar figured out a way to avoid trapping MOVEP but it was never a high priority. Now if MOVEM could move a pair of registers to and from memory each cycle then he has struck gold .
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20 August 2015, 20:22 | #238 |
Jackie Chan
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So trouble brewing in Apollo core world eh?
Oh boy. A drastic change in direction would spell the end for this project at this point, surely. |
20 August 2015, 21:01 | #239 | |||
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Quote:
Quote:
Others like LINK need to use several µops. Of course if the problem comes from the total number of subops you have (i.e. the total for all instructions), i can understand it becomes a big problem. Quote:
Basically it's just a bunch of shift + move.b, and these already exist in the cpu. It's not like if we want it to run in 1 clock. |
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20 August 2015, 22:06 | #240 | |
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Trouble? No, there is no new trouble. Gunnar likes to be the leader of obedient followers. Unfortunately, he tends to overwhelm other leaders and loses the advantages of a diverse group. This makes his job more difficult but perhaps he may succeed doing everything his way. I believe his technical processor design knowledge is sound.
Quote:
Any instruction which takes more than 1 cycle adds complexity to the pipeline design and is more costly. The 68k does and probably always will support multi-cycle instructions so some of the support for multi-cycle instructions is already in place. The actual cost likely depends on the specific 68k design. |
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