03 April 2015, 16:36 | #81 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 4,332
|
Quote:
But by all means, tell me how it would have simplified the way forward a lot. |
|
03 April 2015, 18:04 | #82 |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Age: 41
Posts: 3,771
|
What would you suggest replacing it with? In what ways is it inadequate? It's a million years ahead of the cmd.exe included with windows.
|
03 April 2015, 18:14 | #83 |
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 651
|
Amiga security compared to other OS
Erm accidental post, wrong thread. Admin delete this post.
|
03 April 2015, 19:10 | #84 |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2014
Location: inside the emulator
Posts: 377
|
You argue like a 12 year old. Have you ever done anything to that standard? It is simply shit. And the Windows comment? Comparing a shell to a text terminal standard?!?
|
03 April 2015, 19:28 | #85 |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Trondheim, Norway
Posts: 1,893
|
I have owned both vt220, vt320 and a vt510, all of wich much more state-of-the-art than vt100.
More *ix like paths could have simplified porting of software and made the system less "schizofrenic", almost any networked Amiga today support unix style notation for paths simply because of all the software requiring it. It's messy, to say the least. Resource tracking would helped a lot for stability. |
03 April 2015, 22:45 | #86 |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Grimstad / Norway
Posts: 839
|
The Amiga has a lot of shortcomings, many of which C= was painfully aware of. One of those is applications and application installation.
And before you mention Installer, that is not what I am thinking of: Try to install an application and then move it to another partition or directory. Using WB. Or whatever really - did you get all the dependent files with you when you moved it? I don't think C= had any definitive solution, but I think they pondered upon having a special kind of directory that contained all belonging files and by naming would know what the executable inside was named. OTOH, I am still waiting for the *nix world to come up with a proper solution to the nightmare of version dependence. So far they have become very good at doing workarounds, but they behave like they drank metanol for breakfast if you have just a single minor point too low on the release number of a library. And the viability of the Amiga today? C= did a telling test with Diskdoctor: They saved it on a floppy disk and then started it, telling it to repair the disk. It basically committed suicide and made the disk useless. After that they simply stopped distributing it. The analogy would be to start a debugging monitor and write all over memory and see how well the machine survived that (or make a minimal program that does the same). If you go down in flames then you should rethink what you are doing in 2015. And still, I love the Amiga. I don't see much of a path forwards, but plenty of sideways possibilities. If any of the enhanced FPGA projects ever get released that will be good. Any path forward wont be Amiga compatible, but it could be _heavily_ inspired (i.e. identical for the end user); there is a bit of research done on SASOS (Single Address Space Operating System - yes, that sounds strangely familiar) which targets 64bit systems. Wait and see. Like always. |
03 April 2015, 23:34 | #87 | |
Glastonbridge Software
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Edinburgh/Scotland
Posts: 2,243
|
Quote:
This of course depends on the application. It is certainly possible to design an application that you can just drag anywhere you like and it will still work. The ones i hate most are the ones that require to put Assigns in the startup-sequence. Last edited by Mrs Beanbag; 03 April 2015 at 23:53. |
|
04 April 2015, 00:12 | #88 |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Grimstad / Norway
Posts: 839
|
Not really. This is more of a philosophical discussion. C= was looking towards the Mac and how they handled it (without being satisfied with it IIRC).
If you see the icon for an application you should simply be able to drag it to somewhere else and magic happens in the background unbeknownst to you. That was the level of user-friendliness C= was aiming for - you and me are way too much of a power-user and perfectly able to handle and fix any missed files and directories. Don't you remember back in the days of the 120M floptical? Mac users would innocently randomly walk around and test Macs in shops and just insert a disk and drag applications over wholesale. $10000 worth of apps coming home with you in the pocket. Now _that_ was rich. Or poor. Or something. |
04 April 2015, 00:30 | #89 |
Glastonbridge Software
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Edinburgh/Scotland
Posts: 2,243
|
haha, i do remember that, i don't know exactly how it worked though.
but what i meant was, there was never any standard way for software to install, so standards varied. there were applications you could copy to anywhere you liked, just as you mention you could do on the Mac. And there were other applications you couldn't move at all without a lot of hassle. Or sometimes you couldn't even install them at all if you didn't call your install drive DH1: or whatever. |
04 April 2015, 14:43 | #90 |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,303
|
I agree to Mrs Beanbag. Its all about the developer how they release their software. The most do/did it right with just copy to a programm directory as an installation. You cam move it how you like and it will always work. Installer itself isn`t the problem. Only the wrong use of it. In simplest form it gives some information to the user, ask for the directory and then just copy. Of course it is not always so simple and there are exceptions. Fonts and Libs for example.
Using assigns is in most cases a bad idea. There is progdir: since 2.x or 3.1. Assign command is for the user and for the OS IMHO. It just doesn`t make sense to have dozens of programm assigns beside the user and OS ones. |
04 April 2015, 15:22 | #91 | ||
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 4,332
|
Quote:
Just open a terminal in OSX and try to write a character with a value higher than 7-bit ASCII and watch the system come up with innovative ways to destroy what you just wrote. Try to treat it as a part of the overall system, with the same line editing commands as the rest of the system, and watch your terminal being filled with unparsed control codes. Ask yourself why you must use control and escape sequences to do things which could be done using menus, windows or the system qualifier keys. Or why something like KingCON or VincED seems heathenous to users of *sh shells. Quote:
Agreed. Of course, it was not an option in 1985, but the question is to how to introduce it after the fact. Last edited by TCD; 04 April 2015 at 17:50. Reason: Back-to-back posts merged. |
||
04 April 2015, 15:57 | #92 |
Glastonbridge Software
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Edinburgh/Scotland
Posts: 2,243
|
|
04 April 2015, 16:55 | #93 |
NetBSD developer
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Posts: 411
|
|
04 April 2015, 19:40 | #94 |
Glastonbridge Software
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Edinburgh/Scotland
Posts: 2,243
|
it does seem to struggle a bit with Arabic but Hebrew is fine so i'm guessing it's the font. Line editing is really weird with a mixture of text directions, though.
|
04 April 2015, 20:47 | #95 | |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Grimstad / Norway
Posts: 839
|
Quote:
Check it out here if not: http://www.thule.no/haynie/caos.html |
|
05 April 2015, 07:17 | #96 | |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Trondheim, Norway
Posts: 1,893
|
Yeah, from AS225 through AmiTCP to RoadShow, all IP stacks on Amiga are just bad ports.
Quote:
|
|
05 April 2015, 16:13 | #97 | |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2014
Location: inside the emulator
Posts: 377
|
Quote:
Maximum for my screen width and selected font/size: about 256 characters visible, the logical screen width can be higher. |
|
05 April 2015, 17:53 | #98 | |
Glastonbridge Software
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Edinburgh/Scotland
Posts: 2,243
|
Quote:
ok i got it http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3...haracters-wide but seriously... i mean... seriously... Last edited by Mrs Beanbag; 05 April 2015 at 18:04. |
|
05 April 2015, 18:26 | #99 | |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2014
Location: inside the emulator
Posts: 377
|
Quote:
Edit: Well actually I do understand why (backwards compatibility) but don't think it is relevant anymore. Last edited by Megol; 05 April 2015 at 18:37. |
|
05 April 2015, 18:38 | #100 |
Glastonbridge Software
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Edinburgh/Scotland
Posts: 2,243
|
that they chose to hide such basic functionality in a menu option, such that apparently quite a lot of people don't even know about it... from a usability design point of view that is very much a problem.
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | |
Thread Tools | |
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Breathless security codes | Supamax | request.Other | 9 | 09 October 2009 07:11 |
SNES EyeOfTheBeholder compared to Amiga's port | jharrison | Retrogaming General Discussion | 12 | 01 December 2008 22:06 |
How fast is WINUAE compared to a real amiga? | mrbob2 | Retrogaming General Discussion | 13 | 14 November 2008 23:14 |
My Amiga was a security system | DigitalQuirk | Nostalgia & memories | 3 | 17 April 2008 17:39 |
Why are Amiga games the most cheat menu hacked compared to other systems? | extentofmysin | Retrogaming General Discussion | 13 | 06 September 2006 20:16 |
|
|