XBox 360 inching towards homebrew

[Ian]

Originally Posted by killergorilla

Yeah I meant to put "PSP Go".

Strange decision!

It's not, it's aimed at a different market. PSP go does not replace the normal PSP.

Both will be on sale.

The normal PSP will be for your gamers, the PSP go is for the casual users that will use it for watching movies, listening to music and the occasional game.

[Ian]

Originally Posted by Visper

@Ian, what do you think is so special about the PS3 "version"?

Download the snes9x sourcecode from the official homepage, unpack it, type ./configure then make, wait a couple of minutes and there you go: a executable for PS3.

I don't think theres anything special about it, I was just arguing for arguments sake.

Anyway a "hack" that is just some loophole MS hadn't realised isn't a hack at all in my opinion.

[alexh]

Originally Posted by Ian

Anyway a "hack" that is just some loophole MS hadn't realised isn't a hack at all in my opinion.

Arguing for arguments sake again? That is what all hacks are, loopholes that the designers don't know are there!

If what you really meant was :

Anyway a "hack" which MS can close isn't a hack at all in my opinion.

I would somewhat agree.

But Nintendo have subsequently closed all their loopholes with software updates and there is a thriving Homebrew scene. The only difference being the speed at which the loopholes were closed. M$'s response was frighteningly quick this time round.

[killergorilla]

Originally Posted by Ian

It's not, it's aimed at a different market. PSP go does not replace the normal PSP.

Both will be on sale.

The normal PSP will be for your gamers, the PSP go is for the casual users that will use it for watching movies, listening to music and the occasional game.

Ok, Ian thanks for that.

You're a star!

[Maren]

Can someone explain what's the point in getting a video game console to run applications it wasn't meant to run? why not use a PC for emulation?

[keropi]

hacked consoles can do LOTS more than emulation , for example on both the ps2/xbox1 nowdays you can install a big HDD and have your games installed there, without ever needing a disc... very handy and fast!

[Sensi]

And you can play the games on tv, in your living room, from your coach.

[keropi]

as a sidenote the "dats" to rename your roms according to the screenshot packs alexh pointed above are completelly useless. Having good and verified romsets here, the "dats" only seem to discover ~5% of my romsets, the rest are unrecognised...
maybe someone else found a solution that works?

[alexh]

Originally Posted by Maren

Can someone explain what's the point in getting a video game console to run applications it wasn't meant to run?

Money. Plain and simple. For me I want a low cost High Definition capable home-theatre-pc.

Once you've tried XBMC on the XBOX1 and had a taster of what an on demand library of possibly thousands of movies and TV shows is like, you can't really go back. Add in XBMC's internet streamed Video on Demand plugins such as YouTube, iPlayer, 4OD, SkyPlayer, countless music players etc. etc. you get the perfect HTPC for a fraction of the price.

The XBOX1 is long in the tooth now, it's 733MHz Celeron & 64Mbytes doesnt cut it in the HD world. Even though the GPU is more than capable of resolutions upto 1080i the cpu struggles to decode all but the mildest 720p x264 video.

I could invest in a regular HTPC, run linux and XBMC for linux, but such a setup would cost upwards of 600 UKP.

Whereas an XBOX 360 is what... 124 UKP?

Originally Posted by Maren

why not use a PC for emulation?

I agree. If you own a reasonably capable PC anyhow, and you can set it up next to the TV, you should invest in a USB or wireless joypad and a long VGA/DVI cable before considering homebrew on a console.

[Anakirob]

Can someone explain what's the point in getting a video game console to run applications it wasn't meant to run?

I think the answer is contained within the question. Getting the machine to run applications it wasn't meant to run IS the reason why people get the machine to run applications it wasn't meant to run.

The point of getting a machine do do things it was not designed to do is "Because it can".

Much the same reason that someone would want to climb Mount Everest, "Because it's there" .

[Big-Byte]

Im really looking forward to this as I have two original xboxes running xbmc and they are both starting to fail now.

My xbox 360 has never been online so still have the old dashboard however from what Ive read its not going to be a simple software update to get homebrew running and if thats the case I wont bother.

I tried PS3 linux and wasnt impressed. Got a Megadrive emulator running but it wasnt full speed so gave up on it. I now play Mame etc.. on my PC with a 360 usb pad and its great.

[alexh]

Originally Posted by Big-Byte

Im really looking forward to this as I have two original xboxes running xbmc and they are both starting to fail now.

XBOX-1's are pretty much indestructible. The only things that fail are the HDD (which is easily replaced if you have the HDD key or Hard Mod) and the Fan (again easily replaced with a 70mm 7v PC fan)

Originally Posted by Big-Byte

from what Ive read its not going to be a simple software update to get homebrew running and if that's the case I wont bother.

It almost certainly will require opening your box and using a JTAG.

[Ian]

PS3 Linux is dead anyway. Cannot say I will miss it. Might install it on my launch unit when I get a slim before I sell it so I can say I tried it, but thats it. If I wanted to play with linux I would put it on my PC instead and have a proper go at it.

Incidentally, there are PS3s that are not restricted by the hypervisor and have fully access to CELL and RSX through linux, but these are only available to educational facilities.

[PowerPie5000]

Originally Posted by Ian

Incidentally, there are PS3s that are not restricted by the hypervisor and have fully access to CELL and RSX through linux, but these are only available to educational facilities.

Ps3's available to educational facilities?? whats wrong with just using a PC instead of using a PS3 as a very poor educational PC?

I agree Linux should just be used on PC's... who cares about using Linux with access to RSX anyway? RSX is a poor Nvidia chip based around the Geforce 7 series tech the PS3 GPU was pretty much dated as soon as the console was launched. Cell on the other hand is an interesting CPU and i would like to see it in a PC someday so it's abilities can really be tested! It's being wasted in a console (not exactly an ideal CPU for gaming but can work) and is also used in some IBM blade servers.

[Ian]

It's part of Sonys plan to get young soon-to-be coders coding on CELL.

CELL isn't going away anytime soon, besides it's pretty much accepted that coding well on CELL (that pretty much refuses to play ball with old "PC type" code) improves all versions of code.

It wasn't ideal to begin with, but now people know about schedualling jobs and have "proper" multithread code it's coming into it's own.

It gets a workout if you install Life with Playstation (basically a nice front end to the folding at home client), I'm sure many PS3ers have given up with it now, but when it came out CELL was really flexing it's muscles, outperforming PCs and GPUs combined with few units actually folding.

[alexh]

Originally Posted by Ian

Might install it on my launch unit when I get a slim before I sell it

Why bother getting a slim PS3 if you already have one? Unless you pre-order and get it on day one and auction off your old one before the Slims go on wide sale you'll loose so much money for little or no advantage!

Originally Posted by Ian

CELL isn't going away anytime soon

Erm, I disagree. I bet you it dies a death with the PS3. Developers have said the SDK is too hard to use and the performance of "unoptimised" code being unimpressive and debug capabilities terrible. Unless there is an unbelievable killer application which relies on the power of the Cell in the next 12 months it's successors are surely doomed to be excluded from future consoles.

Whereas lots of developers have praised the 360's SDK as being amazing, simple to use, excellent debugging, standardised toolset with the PC.

Most of the developers have said they should have dumped the Cell and gone with a better RSX

[Ian]

I think you'll find devs, having learnt how to write effective code on CELL would be even more pissed off if it was thrown out the window with the PS4.

Anyway, you are dead wrong. CELL is coming into it's own, sure it was tough to learn and industry dinosaurs like Valve do nothing but moan about it, but the proof is in the pudding. The top 3 best looking console games are all on PS3 despite being "such a nightmare" to program for with RSX being a weaker GPU then Xenos... how so I wonder.... This isn't something thats going to change now devs have a handle on the situation the gap between PS3 games and 360 ones is going to get bigger and bigger.

Most devs are not stupid and now optimise there code, which by the way also makes their 360 code run better. PS3 forced some changes that wouldn't have happened without it. Now we have proper mutlithread code that increases performance on all platforms.

Seriously, I don't know what you read (I am guessing it's 360 fanboi sites) but the opinion on CELL is very different from the crap you've been reading for the last couple of years.

[keropi]

what are those "top 3 best looking console games" ??? I am curious

[alexh]

Originally Posted by Ian

Anyway, you are dead wrong.

I'm not.

Just read what the devs are saying. Carmack of ID said openly that he had to cut the PS3 RAGE 3D engine back to get it to 60fps which the 360 was easily doing with full effects.

Originally Posted by keropi

what are those "top 3 best looking console games" ??? I am curious

Me too. The only 3 I can think of (which are PS3 only titles) are : Uncharted, MGS4 and Ratchet & Clank? Not sure about best looking as I have neither console, nor a HDTV. But colleagues do.

Originally Posted by Ian

Seriously, I don't know what you read (I am guessing it's 360 fanboi sites) but the opinion on CELL is very different from the crap you've been reading for the last couple of years.

Reading no. Talking to, yes!

I'm not doubting that the power is there. I'm saying the devs are not currently using it. Especially on multi-platform titles. And it is an expensive chip. Lets see what unfolds, but my bet is on they consider switching to a cheaper, easier to program architecture, with more GRUNT next time.

[keropi]

from what I have seen latelly, ghostbusters, call of Juarez and re5 that come in mind easily, all blockbuster games and from respected/different companies, are better in X360...
on the xbox1/ps2 era I was a ps2 fan , and I really enjoyed the games the ps2 offered, but this round clearly belongs to the x360 , a gamer does not care if a system is super-powerfull if the software houses - for their own reasons - do not produce quality stuff...