Available now: AmigaOS 3.1.4

[kolla]

Of course it is, one cannot ad-hoc with console window open change screenmodes, duh.

As for "what other programs do", that ship already sailed once you allow windows to be moved outside of screen at all, these programs can already place windows with window title bar (needed for moving) and resize gadget both out of reach.

[Michael]

You can minimise the console and then change screenmode and reopen the console.

I believe there are tighter restrictions in place now to prevent such cases.

[AMIGASYSTEM]

Originally Posted by Michael

Yes, I like those, when people make them with passion.


The trick works in your scenario, and it is even clever enough to reopen the window with new dimension since it is possible in that case.


What will happen if an application request a 800x600 window and you have only 640x380 screen and it is centred ? It could be out of mouse pointer coordinates. Some programs can rearrange windows and move them, that could cause problems too.


Have you used latest MUI? That had to change the scrolling methods used in windows so that scrollers work when outside visible screen or inside virtual group that is not fully open. That makes it very slow and none-responsive on real fast amigas compared to version prior the changes were made. How often you have such situation ? Rarely, but you are forced to use the 'bug' fixed version now, and I don't like it. I would have preferred an option to have smooth scrolling but with limited scrolling abilities, or switch to new method if it is required for some rare occasion.



What's the use of an extra large window ? We can have scrollable screens for when we need to go bigger then monitors can display.
As I understand the only advantage of having windows go outside the screen is slightly easier window manipulation when screen real estate is small. Luckily we don't have a forced active window to front thing like windows has.

Thanks for replying, I use MUI5 but I think you can do the same thing even with previous MUI versions.
You are right that if you open a program with a higher resolution, the mouse is decentralized, but this I think can depend on the quality of the program, the same thing also happens on Windows.
Moving windows on all sides is very important when working with multiple programs at the same time, or when you want to compare GUI or browse multiple folders full of files.
The closure of the program is not a problem for me, i use an application that allows me to close any application or window with the ESC key, if you have time, please do this: [ Show youtube player ]

[kolla]

Minimizing console does not make it possible to change screenmode, I suspect you mean iconifying the console window, something one cannot do with the provided console. Only ViNCEd can do this "correctly" (according to ThoR, and he should know), but that package is a tad too much for lowend systems.

Make both unlimited resizing and moving windows outside screen border options one can set in IControl, and we can all be happy.

[Michael]

kolla: KingCON should do the trick, much lighter and has all needed functionality.

AMIGASYSTEML Nice showcase.

[kolla]

KingCON is a hack, not a solution. Get this already - changing screenmode just to get a wider console window for a few seconds is also not a solution, it is an utterly clumsy work-around for an incredibly lame limitation.

And still noone has been able to demonstrate how one can end up with a window that is impossible to move, resize or close. Best excuse so far is that there may exist some weird commodity hack that may be a problem. Please, be more specific - what weird commodity? What hack? And how does having a max size equal to screensize help against such hack/commodity anyways?

[Michael]

I got your point, there might be some life to it.

The problem is if something resizes the window or opens a window bigger then the screen, making all borders unreachable. Or a window with disabled movement. Rare cases, but need to be considered.

[kolla]

In IControl prefs there is a setting for using a qualifier key along with mouse pointer to drag screens, as an alternative to using screenbar. Same could be done for moving windows, then any window that is just slightly visible could be dragged around to make gadgets reachable. Very simple.

[Michael]

There were commodities/patches that did this tricks, and their kind is a concern.
There is a lot of things missing in iControl, but that's only a switch and other parts need to be adapted to make it happen. So it's a feature request for next big update.

[kolla]

Yeah, I heard, yet noone seems able to name even a single one of them... sigh.

[Daedalus]

It's a strange omission, since OS4 already has these features (window edges optionally "bump" screen edges allowing them to be precisely aligned if needed, and there's a qualifier key for resizing windows from any edge, not just the bottom right corner). Perhaps these features will also eventually end up backported...

[daxb]

I haven't followed this in detail, so sorry in advance. With the ARexx Workbench port you can do nearly everything with WB windows. Hence it should be possible to get a window that is not reachable after a script was launched. It could be difficult to close it in some way. Maybe someone likes to try it.

[kolla]

What I don't grasp in this is... how does the current limited window size help? Once drag bar and close gadget is out of reach, you are stuck, regardless of window size.

[ma693541]

Norwegian Workbench3.1.4 with wallpaper in 640x512 mode and the extra GlowIcons pack with the "About" message open and guess what, it run's fine in WinUAE 4.1.0. Included you will also find my WinUAE configuration file. I didn't use the "Modules" disk and the Workbench run on an emulated A1200 without extra hardware except 8MB Z2 memory. No MMU.lib archive used.

[kolla]

Want to try out my Norwegian locales for 3.1.4?

Consider them "work in progress", I am just a software license breaking troll who is illegally hacking around with binary editors, since the developers and Hyperion refuse to provide catalog description files without NDA signing. I found my old Amiga developer 2.1 CD the other day, so maybe I find some tools there to improve the situation...

[Locutus]

NDA's for catalogue descriptions? whats next, NDA's for includes?

[AMIGASYSTEM]

Originally Posted by ma693541

I didn't use the "Modules" disk and the Workbench run on an emulated A1200 without extra hardware except 8MB Z2 memory. No MMU.lib archive used.

"Modules" are not required and are not required if you use KickStart 3.1.4.

If you use KickStart 3.1, when installing OS 3.1.4 the Modules will be requested during installation.

With KickStart 3.1 once the "Modules" have been installed, the KickStart 3.1 will be replaced by KickStart 3.1.4 at system startup.

[Daedalus]

Originally Posted by kolla

hacking around with binary editors,

I found my old Amiga developer 2.1 CD the other day, so maybe I find some tools there to improve the situation...

Unless they've made massive changes to the file format, SimpleCat should be able to read and write the catalog files directly, and generate descriptor and translator files should you need them for use with other tools. Saves messing with hex editors.

[AMIGASYSTEM]

In addition to SimpleCat on OS3 there are also ReCatItPro, EasyCatalog e CatEdit

[kolla]

Yeah, I have used those tools, as usual sarcasm does not come over well

I mostly used CatEdit, was not aware of SimpleCat being able to generate descriptor files, so will look into that. For language files (locale:languages), there are only two options... compile from source, or binary edit.