English Amiga Board


Go Back   English Amiga Board > Support > New to Emulation or Amiga scene

 
 
Thread Tools
Old 27 December 2019, 03:53   #1
Armitage
Registered User

Armitage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 33
A3000 WHDload crashes with PreLoad enabled

Hey all again, I'm back with my second (of only two, hopefully) issues I've run across since setting up this machine for the first time. The issue is that WHDload games almost all crash right away when the PreLoad (usually the default option) is enabled. Most of the time the crash is something like:


Exception "Access Fault" ($A008)
PC = $7F80884 (ExpMem $4EB84)
Long Write to $809A6F8


When I specify "NoPreload", most games work fine, both PAL and NTSC. A few still do weird things like Sierra games. They won't crash, but the graphics are all glitched up. The odd thing is the same Sierra game plays fine from floppy or if I perform a HD install from floppy. Other games (e.g. Out of This World) play fine for a few levels and then lock up randomly.



The system: A3000-25 w/2MB chip, 2MB Zip, and 8MB Zorro2 (8-Up! card). WB3.1.4.1, latest version (not the beta) of WHDload.


I suspect it's a memory issue based on the error message, so I have run a memory test program and all 12 MB check out okay. I have tried also some of the recommended WHDload tooltypes such as MEM_REVERSE, NOCACHE, and NOAUTOVEC. The only option I've put in the global config file is MMU.


I'd like to get PreLoad working because there's an awful lot of screen flashing and audio dropout when loading from disk occurs. Any ideas what to look at? Thanks!
Armitage is offline  
Old 27 December 2019, 10:01   #2
jotd
This cat is no more
jotd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: FRANCE
Age: 48
Posts: 3,547
Yeah, some games are unplayable without PRELOAD / the OS save/restore routines are good but in some cases it can confuse games and crash (DMA registers are write-only! and some CIA values aren't readable properly)

You could try with NOMMU. It's "dangerous" but if it works for you...

If you could disable the 2MB of zip ram (whatever it is), this would clear things up / make your config more "generic".

Also note that some games have issues and may crash or not depending on the location of the fast memory. For instance, if the game wrongly reads an address location most signficant byte and tests some bits, it can "work" or not depending on the address location. Those are vicious bugs to find. But it cannot happen for ALL games.

There's also the option to test with JST (6.1) just to see if you're luckier.
jotd is offline  
Old 27 December 2019, 13:36   #3
StingRay
move.l #$c0ff33,throat

StingRay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Berlin/Joymoney
Posts: 6,316
First of all, check your HD's MaxTransfer settings.
StingRay is online now  
Old 27 December 2019, 14:10   #4
Toni Wilen
WinUAE developer
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland
Age: 44
Posts: 23,589
Assuming A3000 SCSI: it does not have any max transfer bugs.
Does it work without the Z2 RAM board? (If you find small enough game that still fits in RAM) Perhaps it has issues with A3000 SCSI DMA?
Toni Wilen is offline  
Old 28 December 2019, 17:01   #5
Armitage
Registered User

Armitage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 33
Sorry, I should have clarified: I am running an SCSI2SD as my only HDD. ZIP ram is just the on-board fast RAM. I will have to test without the Z2 board.

Thanks!
Armitage is offline  
Old 31 December 2019, 18:24   #6
TjLaZer
Registered User
TjLaZer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Tacoma, WA USA
Age: 48
Posts: 1,545
Didn’t know NOPRELOAD was a tool type. I thought you just delete it or put it in ( ).
TjLaZer is offline  
Old 31 December 2019, 18:38   #7
Armitage
Registered User

Armitage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by TjLaZer View Post
Didn’t know NOPRELOAD was a tool type. I thought you just delete it or put it in ( ).

You're right, it's not in the documentation. I must have picked it up in a Google search or something while trying to troubleshoot. I assume by changing the tooltype to NOPRELOAD I'm just breaking PRELOAD which had the intended effect so I never noticed it wasn't a valid option
Armitage is offline  
Old 31 December 2019, 18:57   #8
Firestone
Registered User

Firestone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Norway
Posts: 88
Is there an acceleratorboard in your A3000? And if it is, what type?
Firestone is offline  
Old 31 December 2019, 19:08   #9
Armitage
Registered User

Armitage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firestone View Post
Is there an acceleratorboard in your A3000? And if it is, what type?

No accelerator. The only card in the system is the 8-Up! Z2 RAM board that it came with when I bought it. I haven't yet tested removal of the card as the machine only has 2MB of fast RAM on-board but I'm looking to beef that up a bit.
Armitage is offline  
Old 31 December 2019, 19:26   #10
Firestone
Registered User

Firestone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Norway
Posts: 88
Does it have the "Superkickstart"-ROM ?
Firestone is offline  
Old 31 December 2019, 20:05   #11
Armitage
Registered User

Armitage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firestone View Post
Does it have the "Superkickstart"-ROM ?

It's running official Hyperion A3000 3.1.4 ROMs installed into the ROM tower. I haven't messed around with any software kickstarts except for putting the vanilla A500 kickstart needed for WHDload in place.
Armitage is offline  
Old 31 December 2019, 20:35   #12
Firestone
Registered User

Firestone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Norway
Posts: 88
I have a similar setup here. I can do a test here if you give me the name of the game that's not working?
Firestone is offline  
Old 31 December 2019, 20:44   #13
Armitage
Registered User

Armitage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firestone View Post
I have a similar setup here. I can do a test here if you give me the name of the game that's not working?

Cool, thanks! So far I think the only thing that does work with PRELOAD is Arkanoid. Perhaps because it's so small it never needs to use the expansion RAM? Basically everything else crashes right away: Out of This World, all Sierra adventures, Monkey Island, Cannon Fodder, etc.


Just a thought: could it be something to do with the ROM timing jumpers? When I installed the new 3.1.4 ROMs, the system wouldn't boot at all (black screen). It took a lot of troubleshooting to discover that when I lowered the ROM timing from the original setting (210ns/280ns) to a faster setting, the machine would boot fine. I currently have it on the fastest setting (90ns/160ns) because it booted and everything runs great with the exception of WHDload.
Armitage is offline  
Old 31 December 2019, 22:02   #14
Firestone
Registered User

Firestone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Norway
Posts: 88
Tried Cannonfodder now. It crashed the first time with PRELOAD activated.
Then I removed the Preload-tooltype and the game started (of course with the screen flashing when disk is accessed).

I tried once more with PRELOAD and NOMMU tooltype active, and the game launched.

Tried one last time with only PRELOAD as the option and game crashed.
I just relaized that my TCP/IP stack was running, and this is known to crash these loaders. Quitting MiamiDX resulted in game working just fine with the PRELOAD-option.

Have you tried launching these games when you boot with no startup-sequence?

I don't have the 8UP-board installed (actually I got one of them somewhere, but not installed). The zip ram-banks are all populated on the motherboard resulting in a total of 16MB fastram.
Firestone is offline  
Old 31 December 2019, 22:39   #15
Armitage
Registered User

Armitage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 33
I do not have a TCP/IP stack so no issue there. Great idea with booting with no startup-sequence. I did that (along with booting into PAL) and everything I tried started fine with no memory errors! A few things still had graphical glitches or crashed later (Sierra game displayed an error message, Flashback crashed after the intro scene played) but this is a huge improvement from where I was before!

Here's my startup-sequence in case anything jumps out. Warning, I've never set up an Amiga before so this could be a mess.

Code:
; $VER: Startup-Sequence_HardDrive 45.4 (28.5.2018)
; Startup-Sequence for hard drive systems

If Exists C:LoadModule
   C:Version exec.library version 46 >NIL:
   If Warn
      C:LoadModule ROMUPDATE
   Else
      C:LoadModule LIBS:intuition.library
   EndIf
EndIf

C:SetPatch QUIET
C:CPU CHECKINSTALL

C:Version >NIL:
C:AddBuffers >NIL: DF0: 15
FailAt 21

C:MakeDir RAM:T RAM:Clipboards RAM:ENV RAM:ENV/Sys
C:Copy >NIL: ENVARC: RAM:ENV ALL NOREQ

Resident >NIL: C:Assign PURE
Resident >NIL: C:Execute PURE

Assign >NIL: ENV: RAM:ENV
Assign >NIL: T: RAM:T
Assign >NIL: CLIPS: RAM:Clipboards
Assign >NIL: REXX: S:
Assign >NIL: PRINTERS: DEVS:Printers
Assign >NIL: KEYMAPS: DEVS:Keymaps
Assign >NIL: LOCALE: SYS:Locale
Assign >NIL: HELP: LOCALE:Help DEFER
Assign >NIL: LIBS: SYS:Classes ADD

; Required for VIM
Assign >NIL: VIM: DH1:vim-5.3
Assign >NIL: home: DH0:
Alias vi vim
Alias grep Apps:AGrep/AGrep

BindDrivers
C:Mount >NIL: DEVS:DOSDrivers/~(#?.info)

IF EXISTS DEVS:Monitors
  IF EXISTS DEVS:Monitors/VGAOnly
    DEVS:Monitors/VGAOnly
  EndIF

  C:List >NIL: DEVS:Monitors/~(#?.info|VGAOnly) TO T:M LFORMAT "DEVS:Monitors/%s"
  Execute T:M
  C:Delete >NIL: T:M
EndIF

SetEnv Language "english"
SetEnv Workbench $Workbench
SetEnv Kickstart $Kickstart
UnSet Workbench
UnSet Kickstart

C:AddDataTypes REFRESH QUIET
C:IPrefs
SYS:Prefs/FPPrefs
C:ConClip
APPS:NoClick/NoClick

Path >NIL: RAM: C: SYS:Utilities SYS:Rexxc SYS:System S: SYS:Prefs SYS:WBStartup SYS:Tools SYS:Tools/Commodities Apps:vim-5.3

IF EXISTS S:User-Startup
  Execute S:User-Startup
EndIF

Resident Execute REMOVE
Resident Assign REMOVE

C:LoadWB
EndCLI >NIL:
Armitage is offline  
Old 31 December 2019, 23:41   #16
Firestone
Registered User

Firestone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Norway
Posts: 88
Is mmulib (mmu.library) installed by any chance?
And what tools are present in SYS:WBstartup/ ?

Last edited by Firestone; 01 January 2020 at 00:05.
Firestone is offline  
Old 01 January 2020, 17:51   #17
Armitage
Registered User

Armitage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firestone View Post
Is mmulib (mmu.library) installed by any chance?
And what tools are present in SYS:WBstartup/ ?

mmu.library is installed in Libs: along with 68030.library. I have the following tools enabled in Sys:WBstartup/ :

  • AssignWedge
  • ClickToFront
  • MagicMenu
  • Rewincy
  • ToolsMenu
  • WindowTiler
Thanks for your help!
Armitage is offline  
Old 01 January 2020, 17:53   #18
jotd
This cat is no more
jotd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: FRANCE
Age: 48
Posts: 3,547
whdload has pre/post scripts. Useful to configure commands to stop/restart TCP stacks that can enable external interrupts and crash the games, turn off/on JIT (emulator). Avoids booting with a degraded config just to run whdload. Kind of defeats the purpose...
jotd is offline  
Old 01 January 2020, 17:58   #19
Toni Wilen
WinUAE developer
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland
Age: 44
Posts: 23,589
Just wondering if it is related to reported SCSI2SD sync mode corruption here: http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=94530 (check only last few posts). A3000 SCSI afaik will use sync mode if available.
Toni Wilen is offline  
Old 01 January 2020, 20:17   #20
Armitage
Registered User

Armitage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
Just wondering if it is related to reported SCSI2SD sync mode corruption here: http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=94530 (check only last few posts). A3000 SCSI afaik will use sync mode if available.

Good to know. I checked and my SCSI2SD is an older 5.x model that doesn't offer the sync mode so I should be okay there.


Unrelated issue: I figured out why F5 wasn't working in Monkey Island -- Apparently the WindowTiler tool is interfering; disabling it fixed the problem.
Armitage is offline  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
WHDLoad preload over smbfs, then kill tcp/ip? wXR project.WHDLoad 4 08 January 2016 15:17
Whdload on KS 2.05 and PRELOAD Gaula92 project.WHDLoad 9 17 February 2013 22:26
SystemPatch3 - WHDLoad preload incompatible? Shoonay support.Apps 19 07 January 2011 09:04
WinUAE crashes with Catweasel enabled boing_1000 support.WinUAE 2 24 July 2006 02:46
Abandoned Places 2 - TOSEC crashes on A3000 Melroc support.Games 9 01 February 2003 22:52

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 18:44.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Page generated in 0.09114 seconds with 15 queries