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Old 22 April 2019, 01:25   #1
falken
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Lagless vsync + Windows 10 1903/WDDM 2.6

Version 4.2.1 beta1 fails in a serious way in the version of Windows 10 1903 18362.30 RTM (Windows 10 May 2019 Update ) when the desktop is opened in full screen.

I think that it's related with change of Windows Display Driver Model (WDDM) from v2.5 to v2.6 in new version of Windows.


Last edited by falken; 22 April 2019 at 01:48.
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Old 22 April 2019, 09:18   #2
Toni Wilen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by falken View Post
Version 4.2.1 beta1 fails in a serious way in the version of Windows 10 1903 18362.30 RTM (Windows 10 May 2019 Update ) when the desktop is opened in full screen.

I think that it's related with change of Windows Display Driver Model (WDDM) from v2.5 to v2.6 in new version of Windows.

Not enough information ("not working", "fails" etc..). Which mode? D3D9/D3D11/Both? Also, as usual, I don't think this is 4.2.0 or 4.2.1 specific...
(EDIT: nvidia does not have 2.6 drivers yet and I don't trust too much first drivers anyway, especially intels..)

Last edited by Toni Wilen; 22 April 2019 at 10:56.
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Old 22 April 2019, 12:07   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
Not enough information ("not working", "fails" etc..). Which mode? D3D9/D3D11/Both? Also, as usual, I don't think this is 4.2.0 or 4.2.1 specific...
(EDIT: nvidia does not have 2.6 drivers yet and I don't trust too much first drivers anyway, especially intels..)
Intel already has drivers with WDDM 2.6 and Nvidia too
WinUAE works fine in windowed mode but in fullscreen is a disaster, no fps syncro, lag for every where...

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/win...ers--wddm-2-0-


That's for Intel driver but Nvidia has version 430 with support too

Last edited by falken; 22 April 2019 at 12:30.
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Old 22 April 2019, 14:15   #4
Toni Wilen
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Still not enough information. And you still didn't answer any questions that need to be replied.

More questions:

- did you upgrade windows and driver at the same time? If you did, there is no proof it is the driver. (It probably isn't Windows version because I also have 1903 installed). Also both are not really official yet so there can be bugs.. (EDIT: I'll wait for official nvidia 2.6 driver which supposedly is coming next week or so)
- again, does 4.1.0 have same problem?
- again, does same happen in D3D and D3D11 modes?
- same in basic A500 config? Only happens in RTG mode?
- config file (because without this I can't duplicate exact conditions)
- winuaelog.txt.

Because you are the only one who can duplicate it so far, you need to include all the information, for example there is at least 4 slightly different fullscreen setups. Otherwise it is just "it does not work, fix it" which isn't helping anyone. Sorry.

Last edited by Toni Wilen; 22 April 2019 at 14:20.
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Old 22 April 2019, 14:53   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
Still not enough information. And you still didn't answer any questions that need to be replied.

More questions:

- did you upgrade windows and driver at the same time? If you did, there is no proof it is the driver. (It probably isn't Windows version because I also have 1903 installed). Also both are not really official yet so there can be bugs.. (EDIT: I'll wait for official nvidia 2.6 driver which supposedly is coming next week or so)
- again, does 4.1.0 have same problem?
- again, does same happen in D3D and D3D11 modes?
- same in basic A500 config? Only happens in RTG mode?
- config file (because without this I can't duplicate exact conditions)
- winuaelog.txt.

Because you are the only one who can duplicate it so far, you need to include all the information, for example there is at least 4 slightly different fullscreen setups. Otherwise it is just "it does not work, fix it" which isn't helping anyone. Sorry.
- did you upgrade windows and driver at the same time?

Yes, it's a new installation of Windows 10 May 2019 Update (18362.30) 1903 RTM Final Version and Intel Driver 26.20.100.6709 with WDDM 2.6 support

- again, does 4.1.0 have same problem?

I have not tested it, I have only tested version 4.2.1 b1

- again, does same happen in D3D and D3D11 modes?

Yes, it happens in Direct Draw, Direct3D 9, Direct3D 11 modes. Only in fullscreen mode with Lagless Vsync (Beamraced) enabled.

- same in basic A500 config? Only happens in RTG mode?

No RTG modes used. It also happens in a basic Amiga 500 configuration

https://www.dropbox.com/s/yap55kx810...aelog.txt?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/q2ta2wgt17...inuae.ini?dl=0

I have uploaded a video to youtube that illustrates the problem!

[ Show youtube player ]

Last edited by falken; 22 April 2019 at 15:11.
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Old 22 April 2019, 15:37   #6
Toni Wilen
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You should have mentioned lagless vsync in first post...

Beamracing can break easily, it depends on driver side-effect behavior and there is no guarantee it works. Unfortunately there is no way to request/force "lagless" behavior.

IMHO every Windows/driver update seems to make it slightly more worse..
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Old 22 April 2019, 15:43   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
You should have mentioned lagless vsync in first post...

Beamracing can break easily, it depends on driver side-effect behavior and there is no guarantee it works. Unfortunately there is no way to request/force "lagless" behavior.

IMHO every Windows/driver update seems to make it slightly more worse..
Received!
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Old 22 April 2019, 16:12   #8
Toni Wilen
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It probably is still good idea to attach winuaelog.txt and winuaebootlog.txt (tick logging option in misc panel to winuaelog.txt, must be ticked before emulation is started), because it sounds like there is something more larger problems than usual, for example refresh rate is not whats expected.
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Old 22 April 2019, 17:06   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
It probably is still good idea to attach winuaelog.txt and winuaebootlog.txt (tick logging option in misc panel to winuaelog.txt, must be ticked before emulation is started), because it sounds like there is something more larger problems than usual, for example refresh rate is not whats expected.
Attached winuaebootlog.txt and winauelog.txt
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File Type: txt winuaelog.txt (32.6 KB, 35 views)
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Old 22 April 2019, 17:52   #10
Toni Wilen
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Unfortunately I can't see anything obviously wrong.

Does anything change if you use only 1 slice?

But you seem to have OFS formatted hardfile ("Partition 'DH0' Dostype=444F5300 (DOS\0) Flags: 00000000"). It is usually quite bad idea.
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Old 22 April 2019, 18:14   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
Unfortunately I can't see anything obviously wrong.

Does anything change if you use only 1 slice?

But you seem to have OFS formatted hardfile ("Partition 'DH0' Dostype=444F5300 (DOS\0) Flags: 00000000"). It is usually quite bad idea.
What do you mean by '1 slice'?

In Windows 10 1809 it works fine, same config, same hardware...
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Old 23 April 2019, 17:18   #12
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Old 24 April 2019, 18:20   #13
Toni Wilen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by falken View Post
What do you mean by '1 slice'?

In Windows 10 1809 it works fine, same config, same hardware...
Number next to Display panel box that says "Lagless Vsync (Beamraced)". Sometimes smaller number works better, sometimes larger when driver/Windows version changes.

You can also use END+F9 to see "diagnostics bars", easier way to see stability.

I just updated to nvidia 430.39 (which is WDDM 2.6) 1903 Windows and I don't see any obvious differences.

EDIT: Does anything change if you use -busywait command line parameter? (winuae.exe -busywait). Or with -nontdelayexecution ?

Last edited by Toni Wilen; 24 April 2019 at 18:25.
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Old 24 April 2019, 18:28   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
Number next to Display panel box that says "Lagless Vsync (Beamraced)". Sometimes smaller number works better, sometimes larger when driver/Windows version changes.

You can also use END+F9 to see "diagnostics bars", easier way to see stability.

I just updated to nvidia 430.39 (which is WDDM 2.6) 1903 Windows and I don't see any obvious differences.

EDIT: Does anything change if you use -busywait command line parameter? (winuae.exe -busywait). Or with -nontdelayexecution ?
Ok, don't worry, I'll wait for another version of the Intel driver...

EDIT: Does anything change if you use -busywait command line parameter? (winuae.exe -busywait). Or with -nontdelayexecution ? <<<<<------- I'll try that
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Old 27 April 2019, 09:48   #15
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Toni - is there any chance or restoring the old low latency vsync functionality as a back-up? I can never get the lagless to work perfectly with any slice setting without screen tearing or sound issues etc. Thanks
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Old 27 April 2019, 14:29   #16
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Toni - is there any chance or restoring the old low latency vsync functionality as a back-up? I can never get the lagless to work perfectly with any slice setting without screen tearing or sound issues etc. Thanks
No. 1 slice is practically same as old low latency vsync. You need to do the usual, logs from both configs with only difference being winuae version and vsync mode. Everything else must be same.

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=92926
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Old 28 April 2019, 04:10   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Octopus66 View Post
Toni - is there any chance or restoring the old low latency vsync functionality as a back-up? I can never get the lagless to work perfectly with any slice setting without screen tearing or sound issues etc. Thanks
Hi,

Is your computer using solely an integrated graphics card, precisely one of the Intel HD Graphics family?

I gave up on trying to use WinUAE with Lagless VSync on those cards. The Intel HD Graphics card family is completely bugged... I simply can't get a stable image on these cards with WinUAE and any other emulator.

Because of that, a while ago I decided to use only Fullwindow and Standard VSync with all the emulators I use (not just WinUAE), because this is the only way to make they work correctly with those graphics cards. Luckly, I am a casual game player and I don't feel much difference of the lagness caused by Standard VSync and Fullwindow.

Last edited by Leandro Jardim; 28 April 2019 at 04:19.
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Old 20 May 2019, 22:07   #18
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Hi Toni - I have an example with logs showing the difference. WinUAE 3.5 is rock solid for me, but latency is slightly too high.
I cannot get any slice selection to reproduce the behavior of old lagless vsync.

Thanks - hope this helps

@Leandro - no I am using an NVIDIA graphics card GT 1030
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File Type: zip logs35.zip (7.8 KB, 13 views)
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Last edited by Octopus66; 20 May 2019 at 22:08. Reason: replied to Leandro
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Old 21 May 2019, 18:21   #19
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Also - I notice the beam-race behavior has changed in 4.21. I cannot get the colour bars to work with END+F9 any longer - has anyone spotted this?
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Old 22 May 2019, 16:06   #20
Toni Wilen
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Originally Posted by Octopus66 View Post
Hi Toni - I have an example with logs showing the difference. WinUAE 3.5 is rock solid for me, but latency is slightly too high.
I cannot get any slice selection to reproduce the behavior of old lagless vsync.
Nothing interesting in the logs

Does anything change if you make sure both nvidia power mode is max (not adaptive or similar), same with possible PC power saving. Sometimes it won't cause problems, sometimes they do..

Could you create example video (with END+F9 enabled, game can be for example pinball dreams with table scrolling up and down)? It does not need to be more than 10 seconds or so, use phone camere etc (do not use PC recording, result is useless). Use basic quickstart A500 config (but do not enable cycle-exact to keep CPU usage as small as possible). Single slice only.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Octopus66 View Post
Also - I notice the beam-race behavior has changed in 4.21. I cannot get the colour bars to work with END+F9 any longer - has anyone spotted this?
Works for me.
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